Xlibre
Xlibre
Posted Jun 11, 2025 8:21 UTC (Wed) by parametricpoly (subscriber, #143903)In reply to: Xlibre by pizza
Parent article: Ubuntu 25.10 to drop support for GNOME on Xorg
If you do objective analysis, Xorg has some limitations and Wayland comes with another set of limitations. Extending and improving X will face some issues as other platforms using X still use the old APIs. At this point it's hard to justify moving back to X even if it will get fixes and updates. Also what would you do with a windowing system if the apps are abandoning it? I'm looking at something like lightdm or sddm. The repos are basically dead.
Posted Jun 12, 2025 19:53 UTC (Thu)
by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648)
[Link] (17 responses)
Maybe one day they'll be able to reliably implement those cutting edge features.
Posted Jun 13, 2025 2:49 UTC (Fri)
by numgmt (guest, #167446)
[Link] (16 responses)
Posted Jun 13, 2025 10:26 UTC (Fri)
by lindi (subscriber, #53135)
[Link]
Posted Jun 14, 2025 12:20 UTC (Sat)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
[Link] (14 responses)
Posted Jun 14, 2025 13:07 UTC (Sat)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link] (12 responses)
It's not really a killer feature of X11, not for a long time. Waypipe[1] exists and in practice works much better over mediocre links than X11 SSH forwarding, much less actual X11 network transparency, ever did.
Posted Jun 16, 2025 10:30 UTC (Mon)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
[Link] (11 responses)
Posted Jun 16, 2025 11:03 UTC (Mon)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link] (10 responses)
The thing is, you don't.
`ssh -X` is as much of a third-party program as `waypipe` is.
And in the off-chance if you're **actually** talking about X11's **actual** network transparency, i.e., `DISPLAY=somehost:0`, then that stopped working satisfactorily even longer ago than `ssh -X` (unless you limit yourself to Motif and Tk, I guess).
Posted Jun 16, 2025 12:37 UTC (Mon)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Jun 16, 2025 13:48 UTC (Mon)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link] (2 responses)
So... [random X11 application] isn't specialized, complex, with a ton of dependencies? I mean, if you're trying to run an X11 application remotely, you're going to need at minimum full client xlib+whatever else on one side, and an running xserver+whatever else on the other side. In other words, by definition, both sides need to have everything necessary to run said application, and *all of it* is outside the scope of what ssh provides (ie a forwarded TCP connection)
Along that line, nothing prevents [Portable] OpenSSH adding support for wrapping waypipe, eg by adding -W and associated configuration options. There's plenty of precedence, not just with X11 (via -X) and various authentication agents but also things like scp/sftp which work by forking off separate executables (on both sides) and shuffling data between the two.
(I would also point out that openssh's -X option claims to support interacting with X11 "Security extensions" by default; I don't know exactly what that entails under the hood but it's clearly more than just setting up a port forward and setting $DISPLAY on the remote side)
Posted Jun 17, 2025 1:50 UTC (Tue)
by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
[Link] (1 responses)
I think this refers to running xauth to set an MIT Magic Cookie value in ~/.Xauthority which is like an API token that prevents other users on the same system from just connecting to your forwarded X11 port on localhost and rickrolling (at best) your screen.
Posted Jun 23, 2025 8:29 UTC (Mon)
by cortana (subscriber, #24596)
[Link]
The SECURITY extension allows certain clients to be marked as "untrusted" which prevents them from being able to spy on input events, take screenshots of other clients and so on.
Unfortunately many clients break completely under such restrictions. For many years, Debian patched OpenSSH to disable the use of the SECURITY extension by deafult. Nowadays I think the situation is a bit better but I've not used X11 forwarding for a long time so haven't verified.
Posted Jun 16, 2025 16:11 UTC (Mon)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link]
>> <...> With X11, you get the functionality out of the box. <...>
What we were discussing is that both are structurally *third-party software*. There is nothing conceptually "out-of-the-box" about `ssh -X`, not any more than Waypipe. Whether the latter is significantly more specialized and complex is in the eye of the beholder.
> X11 remoting has worked well for my needs
Nobody was disputing that. We were talking about whether it actually is a "killer feature".
Posted Jun 16, 2025 13:13 UTC (Mon)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (4 responses)
I still use ssh -X for some very graphically-limited apps - xterm mostly - but for anything using a modern toolkit you really need XPRA to get good performance. And the persistence / immunity to transient network issues/moves is a nice bonus in some cases; and absolutely essential in other cases. E.g., I use xpra to access the same instance of an app between work and home, without having to restart the app and my flow in it.
Posted Jun 16, 2025 16:13 UTC (Mon)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link]
Waypipe does not need anything like Xpra to get good performance; you get it by default.
> And the persistence / immunity to transient network issues/moves is a nice bonus in some cases
There is no persistence, however. Earlier versions of Waypipe had rudimentary support for reconnection, but it was since dropped — not sure why, perhaps lack of interest on the sole developer's part.
Posted Jun 17, 2025 1:58 UTC (Tue)
by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
[Link]
Posted Jun 17, 2025 8:50 UTC (Tue)
by vasvir (subscriber, #92389)
[Link] (1 responses)
I use it as my daily driver and while it has its issues it is workable...
I have filed some bug reports and some of them have been fixed.
Posted Jun 17, 2025 9:50 UTC (Tue)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link]
Posted Jun 23, 2025 4:20 UTC (Mon)
by wperkins (guest, #767)
[Link]
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> I still use ssh -X for some very graphically-limited apps - xterm mostly - but for anything using a modern toolkit you really need XPRA to get good performance.
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