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Complex and bloated

Complex and bloated

Posted May 10, 2025 19:14 UTC (Sat) by parametricpoly (subscriber, #143903)
In reply to: Complex and bloated by khim
Parent article: A kernel developer plays with Home Assistant: general impressions

Right, another complaint I can think of is that all vendors are building their own IoT ecosystem. I'm basically buying gear that best serves its purpose (technical aspect) and has a good price. Each of them has a different middleware. I even bought two robot vacuum cleaners from the same vendor (Dreame). Both have different software (Dreame & Xiaomi home). My cat feeder has an app that also advocates buying their stuff and has a concept of rooms and scenes etc although I only needed it to set up the feeding schedule. It fails to perform its main function. The schedule needs to be fixed twice a year due to daylight savings. The UI also displays weather forecast for this location etc. which are totally useless in this app. My air purifier has its own app but does not show these infos.

Yes there's Google Home integration but the air purifier is a perfect example. Its own app shows the wear status of the filters, displays air pollution levels, can adjust fan speed, schedules etc. The Google Home integration only allows turning it on or off.


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Complex and bloated

Posted May 10, 2025 19:27 UTC (Sat) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (7 responses)

> It fails to perform its main function.

How do you know?

> My cat feeder has an app that also advocates buying their stuff

That seems to be the main function… and it only needs to bring few percents of users to buy some high-margin thingie from them… how do you know it fails at that?

> I'm basically buying gear that best serves its purpose (technical aspect) and has a good price.

The problem is that we live in a world where making gear that best serves its purpose and has good price is not sustainable. You need something else to survive. Something high-margin.

And that's why all that move is even happening: it's all an attempt to find that “something high-margin”. If not in a real reality then, at least, in imaginary reality that can be shown to investors.

Take a look on what's happening from that angle… and things, suddenly, would become much more sane if sad: you would realize that things are happening in the way they are happening because people that are doing them are intelligent and sane and not sadistic and insane… but that doesn't give you “a way out” in a world where you are consumer, not a product (with eyes, ears and wallet that are on sale).

Complex and bloated

Posted May 13, 2025 5:33 UTC (Tue) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (6 responses)

The problem is that we live in a world where making gear that best serves its purpose and has good price is not sustainable. You need something else to survive. Something high-margin.

I don't think that's quite true. High margins are necessary for relatively new businesses that are selling to a small market of early adopters, which is where most smart devices are today. Over time, though, manufacturers will figure out how to make those same general kinds of goods into low margin, high volume items that will sell to everyone. I think a really good home automation server will be a key part of that happening. Once lots of people have home automation servers with a standardized device interface, smart devices will become commodities, and low cost rather than high margins will be the name of the game.

Complex and bloated

Posted May 13, 2025 10:55 UTC (Tue) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (5 responses)

> Once lots of people have home automation servers with a standardized device interface, smart devices will become commodities, and low cost rather than high margins will be the name of the game.

Look no further than the rapid enshittification of televisions to see how well that theory has worked out -- In practice, those "smart devices" are already being reduced to selling at zero or negative margins, with any profits being made by monetizing collected user data (including injected advertising), subscription fees, or both.

If you don't control the server backend and/or the user client, none of that is possible.

Complex and bloated

Posted May 13, 2025 18:35 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (4 responses)

Data collected from smart devices is largely worthless, except for TVs. There are scores of dead companies attesting to that.

Complex and bloated

Posted May 13, 2025 19:44 UTC (Tue) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (3 responses)

> Data collected from smart devices is largely worthless, except for TVs. There are scores of dead companies attesting to that.

That conveniently ignores the companies that didn't die, many of whom bought up the assets (including the data!) of those failed companies.

...So I take it you have no problem with everyone+dog having access to always-on microphones (and sometimes cameras -- Roomba taking photos of people on toilets, anyone?) in your home, along with detailed data on room occupancy (including schedules) and location data? And that's just the devices; factor in the truly awful state of individual apps (and every device has to have their own app, because $reason) which all seem to require access to fine location data, phone state, and usually far more?

So "worthless" or not, I have a major problem with the fact they're all doing it anyway,... and making their products shittier in the process.

Complex and bloated

Posted May 13, 2025 20:23 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (2 responses)

> ...So I take it you have no problem with everyone+dog having access to always-on microphones

I don't really care, yes. What are you going to do with this data? For ad-tech, you need to tie it to a browser user somehow, and that's not trivial. You can also (try to) sell the aggregate data for market research, but there's a very limited amount of valuable information in day-to-day life of regular people.

That's also why TVs are the only major area where privacy violations make commercial sense, they have a closed loop for ads. The data from a TV can be used to calibrate the ads that are shown on the same TV. Basically, if you have a device with a screen that shows you ads, then be afraid. Otherwise, you're likely fine.

Companies like Lowe's tried to jump on the "smart home" bandwagon (IRIS) and get access to all those tasty, tasty data. And it failed entirely, they got nothing but losses.

Complex and bloated

Posted May 13, 2025 20:46 UTC (Tue) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> Companies like Lowe's tried to jump on the "smart home" bandwagon (IRIS) and get access to all those tasty, tasty data. And it failed entirely, they got nothing but losses.

I'd posit that has more to do with folks simply not *purchasing* this crap, because the value-add for "smart home" to non-gear-fetishists is approximately zero.

Complex and bloated

Posted May 14, 2025 6:48 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> I'd posit that has more to do with folks simply not *purchasing* this crap, because the value-add for "smart home" to non-gear-fetishists is approximately zero.

Companies forget that the "value add" can easily be NEGATIVE to the consumer. We want a BASIC phone service with OUR choice of add-ons. If our phone company isn't careful they might find I try to bring the weight of disability charities down on them because we can't turn off unwanted extras.

Last time this happened we got refunded three months of phone charges because the service was - to put it bluntly - life threateningly bad! Then we recently upgraded and the mess has come back ...

Cheers,
Wol

Complex and bloated

Posted May 11, 2025 0:13 UTC (Sun) by willy (subscriber, #9762) [Link] (1 responses)

> The [cat feeder] schedule needs to be fixed twice a year due to daylight savings

Why would you do that? From the cat's point of view, it has to wait 13 hours rather than the usual 12 (assuming you're on an every-12-hours schedule). And then five months later, all of a sudden it only has to wait 11 hours.

The cat's schedule isn't tied to yours. Just ignore DST (I do this for the clocks in my house which aren't easy to change and don't control anything I care about).

Complex and bloated

Posted May 11, 2025 11:01 UTC (Sun) by parametricpoly (subscriber, #143903) [Link]

> The cat's schedule isn't tied to yours. Just ignore DST (I do this for the clocks in my house which aren't easy to change and don't control anything I care about).

I've set it up to serve 3 proportions during the night so that the cat won't wake me at 4 or 5 am. This is really for my comfort.

Complex and bloated

Posted May 12, 2025 8:36 UTC (Mon) by leromarinvit (subscriber, #56850) [Link] (1 responses)

> I even bought two robot vacuum cleaners from the same vendor (Dreame). Both have different software (Dreame & Xiaomi home).

If you haven't already, you might want to look into Valetudo (https://valetudo.cloud/). Its main feature is that it lets you control your vacuum without being connected to the manufacturer's cloud service, so you can stop worrying about the privacy and security implications. It has a nice, local web GUI, and can optionally integrate with HA (or other systems) via MQTT.

I've been running it for years on a Roborock and a Dreame vacuum cleaner, without any issues.

Complex and bloated

Posted Aug 9, 2025 21:40 UTC (Sat) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link]

Valetudo was the main reason I replaced my Neato BotVac with the Dreame we have now. Despite Neato biting the dust, I would have kept the hardware and even modded it to run 100% local, if Valetudo hadn't been relatively easy to use in order to root the Dreame and turn it fully local. TBH the Neato hardware is simply superior (it vacuums more per pass), but after my experience with cloud-based vacuums, I learned my lesson and I won't accept any such bullshit anymore.

Complex and bloated

Posted Aug 9, 2025 21:37 UTC (Sat) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link]

> even bought two robot vacuum cleaners from the same vendor (Dreame).

You can free most Dreame and Roborock vacuums using Valetudo. 100% local and compatible with HA via MQTT.


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