stupid breeds stupid

Posted Mar 23, 2025 20:51 UTC (Sun) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
In reply to: stupid breeds stupid by Wol
Parent article: OSI election ends with unsatisfying results

Wol writes: But I can't agree with dskoll that forced sharing benefits everyone

Well, hang on. Nobody is forcing anyone to use the GPL for their code. The FSF says they should, but they have no real power over software authors. What is true is that if an author picks the GPL, then downstream recipients are forced to share their changes if they distribute modified versions of the software, and that IMO is a good thing that does benefit everyone.

If you want to make money writing software, pick a standard proprietary license. There's no shame in that, and it's a much easier way to build a business than with free software or open-source. But if you do decide to make software open-source, then I think a copyleft license is best. Open-source (or Free Software) is a philosophy. It's not a business model.

stupid breeds stupid

Posted Mar 23, 2025 23:03 UTC (Sun) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

This is where imho the "pick any two" dilemma rears its head.

> then downstream recipients are forced to share their changes if they distribute modified versions of the software, and that IMO is a good thing that does benefit everyone.

> If you want to make money writing software, pick a standard proprietary license.

I don't think those two statements are mutually compatible :-) Well, they are with copyleft licences like MPL, but that's a "weak" licence and not liked by the purists.

If I want to make a living from software, using the GPL makes life, well, tricky. How can that be "a good thing that does benefit everyone"? Either I have to re-invent the wheel (a bad thing), or I have major administrative hassle proving I comply with the licence (a bad thing), or I have to think of all sorts of "inventive" ways round the GPL - yet another bad thing!

That's alleviated to some extent by the LGPL, which is a big show of practicality by FSF, but it comes over as an unwanted concession to necessity, rather than the right solution to certain problems.

But we're drifting way off what provoked this thread - a conspiracy theory against Open Source. We both want the same end - for the source to be open. We both agree that if someone makes us a gift, it behoves us to return it. It's just we may not agree about the best way to achieve that end. That's life!

Cheers,
Wol

stupid breeds stupid

Posted Mar 23, 2025 23:44 UTC (Sun) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]

The statements are not mutually compatible. The reason for creating GPL'd software is not financial. It is to benefit humanity. If you want to make a living from software, don't use GPL'd software (unless you're willing to jump through the hoops.) If you want to produce GPL'd software, then it's fine for you to use GPL'd software.

The intent behind the GPL was never to empower businesses to make a profit off GPL'd software. The fact that a few have figured out a way to do that is not relevant to the intent of the GPL, which is to empower users to control their own computing environment.

stupid breeds stupid

Posted Mar 25, 2025 0:13 UTC (Tue) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (1 responses)

The difference between "should" and "must" is an army and a navy, not any ethical or normative considerations. If "must" does not correctly capture the intended normative meaning, then neither does "should."

stupid breeds stupid

Posted Mar 25, 2025 0:15 UTC (Tue) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link]

(Yes, I have read RFC 2119. Those are technical definitions for use in standards. I'm speaking of the standard definitions as you would find them in the dictionary.)

stupid breeds stupid

Posted Mar 31, 2025 18:19 UTC (Mon) by sramkrishna (subscriber, #72628) [Link]

"If you want to make money writing software, pick a standard proprietary license. There's no shame in that, and it's a much easier way to build a business than with free software or open-source. But if you do decide to make software open-source, then I think a copyleft license is best. Open-source (or Free Software) is a philosophy. It's not a business model."

I think many companies do think it is a business model. They are looking to get free labor from the community. History points to many anecdotes of community made software or efforts co-opted by a company. Usually ends badly though. Copyleft is the one way to not have your work co-opted by an entity looking to leverage free expertise and labor. It does put a damper on making money off your own work. Hopefully, though with efforts like flathub we can have both.