Codeberg responds to hate attacks
Extreme right forces actively target members of our communities and discriminate based on ethnicity and gender, political background, sexual orientation, disabilities, nationality and faith. However diversity is an important asset in free/libre software communities and it is what makes our software great and development productive.By targeting some of our most active translators, nicest designers, best developers and all other motivated contributors, they are hurting the free/libre software ecosystem as a whole.
Posted Feb 12, 2025 19:33 UTC (Wed)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (2 responses)
It was pretty pathetic and gross. I guess Codeberg will have to start implementing a content filter, sadly.
Posted Feb 12, 2025 19:57 UTC (Wed)
by KJ7RRV (subscriber, #153595)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Feb 12, 2025 22:20 UTC (Wed)
by aviallon (subscriber, #157205)
[Link]
Posted Feb 13, 2025 5:29 UTC (Thu)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link] (24 responses)
There is no reason to hide anything about the attacker and their ugly motives but the last _third_ of the response is 100% political and the rest is somewhat too. That's a lot of publicity: very likely one of the precise effects the attacker is after. Everything politicized - fell in the trap? I think these political problems are real but we could also use a break and not always describe every incident and every lunatic as some disciplined soldier part of some grander and organized army. It's not always the case. That's giving them way too much importance and credit and is only dividing us further.
Attention / clicks: one of the main currencies of our sad era. What we give way too much of, for free, to a minority of various "showmen" who do not deserve any of it (and to social media algorithms too but that's a different topic)
To be fair, if the response had been more tame then maybe fewer people would have heard about Codeberg. There is indeed "no bad publicity"; the system works.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 6:15 UTC (Thu)
by alan (guest, #4018)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Feb 13, 2025 8:00 UTC (Thu)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link]
Why "perhaps"? Why withhold information about the attackers that would actually justify the political stance?
> Why are you attempting to diminish the significance of these attacks?
What specific part(s) of my comment were not clear?
BTW I'm indeed questioning the _political_ significance of these attacks but not their _impact_. Thanks for understanding that.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 6:30 UTC (Thu)
by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118)
[Link] (5 responses)
But their announcement was bit over the top. Putting the blame on "far right" forces sounds like a way to polarize and antagonize the community.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 9:15 UTC (Thu)
by ssmith32 (subscriber, #72404)
[Link] (4 responses)
You have a very confused (or overly broad, to the point of meaningless) definition of "political".
There *are* major, relevant political parties with strong ties to white supremacy on the far right.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 10:22 UTC (Thu)
by numgmt (guest, #167446)
[Link]
Posted Feb 13, 2025 14:51 UTC (Thu)
by kleptog (subscriber, #1183)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Feb 13, 2025 15:39 UTC (Thu)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link] (1 responses)
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke
Posted Feb 14, 2025 7:57 UTC (Fri)
by dsommers (subscriber, #55274)
[Link]
https://www.reuters.com/article/fact-check/edmund-burke-d...
TL;DR from the Reuters Fact Check team:
> The quote on the triumph of evil is misattributed to the eighteenth-century Irish philosopher Edmund Burke. The quote is possibly a paraphrase, although a definitive source has yet to be found
One possible paraphrase source is from John Stuart Mill:
> Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.
The challenge to relate this paraphrase to Burke is that Mill said this in an inaugural address in 1867. Burke died in 1797.
Another more in-depth quote check can be found here: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/12/04/good-men-do/
This is one of the quotes which really has stuck with the wrong attribution since early 1900, so I doubt it won't change much. But I'm fascinated by quotes and how many of them gets misattributed, so I can't resist digging into them.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 12:08 UTC (Thu)
by josh (subscriber, #17465)
[Link]
Posted Feb 13, 2025 14:32 UTC (Thu)
by oliwer (subscriber, #40989)
[Link] (11 responses)
Posted Feb 13, 2025 15:02 UTC (Thu)
by kleptog (subscriber, #1183)
[Link] (10 responses)
That approach never works. It's not just the messages, but the choice of projects that were targeted.
If they were asking for money it might work. If it was a spammer who randomly targeted projects it might work. But a targeted attack doesn't go away by ignoring it.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 15:06 UTC (Thu)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link] (8 responses)
I got those emails and there was nothing political in them. It was just good old shock content spam. Am I missing anything?
Posted Feb 13, 2025 18:36 UTC (Thu)
by Thalience (subscriber, #4217)
[Link] (6 responses)
People who have been on the receiving end of such direct political violence in the past can see clearly that it is happening again. To ignore it is to enable it.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 18:37 UTC (Thu)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link] (3 responses)
Do you have any sort of basis for this claim?
Posted Feb 13, 2025 18:43 UTC (Thu)
by Thalience (subscriber, #4217)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Feb 13, 2025 19:19 UTC (Thu)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link]
Got it. Looks like I am indeed not missing anything apart from some politically charged speculation. Good to know, thanks!
Posted Feb 14, 2025 8:03 UTC (Fri)
by dsommers (subscriber, #55274)
[Link]
> [...] several projects advocating tolerance and equal rights on Codeberg have been subject to hate attacks, such as massive spam of abusive messages in their issue trackers.
I would say that "massive spam of abusive messages" combined with "several projects advocating tolerance and equal rights" indicates this being quite targeted and offensive.
[1] https://blog.codeberg.org/we-stay-strong-against-hate-and...
Posted Feb 13, 2025 18:50 UTC (Thu)
by sb (subscriber, #191)
[Link]
I received a few of those codeberg emails and I too think that the language of the "fighting hate" announcement reads overly hyperbolic considering the likely nature of the attack. (Griefer discovers that codeberg allows prefix searches on usernames, spams some slurs or expletives, gets blocklisted.) Then again, I have no idea what other attacks they may be dealing with.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 20:30 UTC (Thu)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link]
Again, crime is serious and it should _obviously not be "ignored"_. No one said that, can we please stop with the straw man arguments? It's also useful to describe the motives; no one questioned that either. It's about focus and nuance.
Crime is a _political_ issue only when above some thresholds - which are so far missing from that political and hyperbolic response, why? No one is asking for court-admissible evidence: a vague description of whatever far-right organization(s) were vaguely suspected to be involved would have been enough. But not even a mob was mentioned in this particular case. Yet?
Yes, the political issues of the moment (which are very real and very bad) are going to inspire every deranged individual. But if they're deranged, they would have been inspired by anything else. Describing every bully as part of some organized political plan is not credible and backfiring. It gives them the very exposure they want while making you look incapable of thinking outside politics. It's also distracting from the actual plans happening right now: once everything is political, "normal" people tune out and nothing is.
For a long time straw man arguments, conspiracy theories, exaggerating random and isolated crimes into political issues and ignoring numbers and statistics were unique to the far right. It's pretty sad to observe the left slowly "catching up". This has unsurprisingly be very "successful" on social media but recent elections across the world have looked different.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 21:33 UTC (Thu)
by excors (subscriber, #95769)
[Link]
There are some relevant responses from Codeberg on Mastodon:
>> i do have to ask though, how do we know this was a far right attack?
> As we have written in the blog article, we have been busy cleaning targeted campaigns from certain projects that promote human rights and act against transphobia. As we tried to keep these projects clean, hate against our platform has continuously increased and finally resulted in this "spam".
> We faced attacks against human and trans rights projects in the past days, and have received email shitstorm, the spam wave and DDoS in response to standing up.
The spam message wasn't political by itself, it looks like regular 4chan-style juvenile trolling; but with the wider context, Codeberg sees it as an escalation of an ongoing series of attacks that clearly were targeted in a political direction. They can't prove the spam wasn't just an isolated trolling incident, but they think it would be naive to treat it as isolated and not part of this pattern, and they think the continuing escalation confirms that.
Posted Feb 13, 2025 16:14 UTC (Thu)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link]
Everything in that sentence is off. It would be difficult to miss my point even more.
Posted Feb 14, 2025 16:20 UTC (Fri)
by q3cpma (subscriber, #120859)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Feb 17, 2025 12:36 UTC (Mon)
by jubal (subscriber, #67202)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Feb 17, 2025 17:33 UTC (Mon)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link]
I received one of these emails
I received one of these emails
I received one of these emails
This is so lame.
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
> We assume this based on the history.
>
> 1. targeting leftist projects on Codeberg. We react quickly.
> 2. They flood our mailboxes with spam. We don't care.
> 3. They start sending racial slurs to all users of Codeberg.
>
> We suppose that people who want to blame the right would not accept the collateral damage to send potentially triggering racial slurs to all users of a platform.
(https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg/113992798808070817)
>
> We are dealing with script kiddies every day, and while we cannot guarantee for the exact motive, we thought it was worth writing about, because it was different from the daily bored kids. ~f
(https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg/113993784854472644)
>
> If the attacks weren't coming from the right and we blamed the right, wouldn't attackers eventually laugh about this? However, since we apparently called them out, we have seen revenge.
>
> Since we are dealing with script kiddies every day, you might have noticed that we don't blog about such things often.
(https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg/113998006693502179)
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?
have you considered that – having received only one or a few more messages – you might be missing the wider context?
Fell in the trap?
Fell in the trap?