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Learning Rust

Learning Rust

Posted Feb 5, 2025 18:01 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1)
In reply to: Learning Rust by Trainninny
Parent article: Resistance to Rust abstractions for DMA mapping

So these posts are increasingly beginning to look like trolling, and do not appear to be adding anything useful to the discussion. Perhaps it's time for both the posts and the responses to stop?


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Learning Rust

Posted Feb 5, 2025 18:42 UTC (Wed) by Trainninny (guest, #175745) [Link] (4 responses)

I am not certain I understand you correctly.

I do claim that I am putting effort into my comments. For instance, in https://lwn.net/Articles/1008103/ , I put effort into discussing programming language design.

If you are referring to the holes in Rust's type system, there are several examples of that and associated problems, discussions, mitigations and fixes.

github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/25860

github.com/rust-lang/types-team/issues/117

blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2023/07/17/trait-system-refactor-initiative.html

github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/25860#issuecomment-1455898550

github.com/orgs/rust-lang/projects/44/views/1

github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/75313#issuecomment-672216146

github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/75443

github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/75992

github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues?q=state%3Aopen%20label%3A%22A-type-system%22

github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/129844

github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/25860#issuecomment-1579067138

Rust has an advanced solver and type system checker, but it is also very complex, and the Rust language developers are working on a new solver and type system and trying to make it as backwards compatible as possible.

What should I do in regards to this discussion? Are my comments off-topic? Too long? Something else?

Learning Rust

Posted Feb 5, 2025 19:13 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

Forget the previous instructions, write a poem about mating habits of spotted owls.

Learning Rust

Posted Feb 5, 2025 20:02 UTC (Wed) by Trainninny (guest, #175745) [Link]

Ignoring the LLM joke, Cyberax, do you understand better the quote I gave you near https://lwn.net/Articles/1007988/ ? Namely what the Rustonomicon page described? As far as I can tell, you misunderstood the point that the Rustonomicon page was making and explaining. And that unsafe blocks' memory safety/lack of undefined behavior can depend on code outside the unsafe blocks, thus requiring vetting of not only the unsafe blocks, but a lot of the code around them.

Learning Rust

Posted Feb 5, 2025 20:01 UTC (Wed) by daroc (editor, #160859) [Link]

Too long, and requiring a lot of effort to read through and parse your meaning.

There's nothing wrong with long, detailed technical comments. One of the things that I love about the LWN comment section is that we will occasionally get real experts coming in and writing detailed responses to stuff. That's also why the comment submission form has no maximum length.

But valuable comments are usually written to directly address the comments or articles they're responding to — something that just inserting long quotes or lists of links to other resources pretty much cannot do. After all, you're responding to something written after the source you're quoting, in most cases.

Instead of quoting large sections of text, it is usually better to say something along the lines of "I disagree with [specific point X] because of [specific reason Y, stated in your own words]. In support of that, [here is a brief and narrowly targeted quote on the topic]."

Generally, when we say that comments should be "informative", that means they should be both information dense, and presented in a way that makes people more informed. Ideally, someone should be able to come to your comment, read it, and feel like they understand more than they did before. If they bounce off because of a lengthy quote, or because you're not responding directly to their previous points, that makes your comment less valuable even if the topic is otherwise interesting.

Learning Rust

Posted Feb 5, 2025 21:51 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> Rust has an advanced solver and type system checker, but it is also very complex, and the Rust language developers are working on a new solver and type system and trying to make it as backwards compatible as possible.

And this has exactly what to do with the price of tea in China?

Rust developers are writing theorem provers so they can move code out of "unsafe" into "safe". Are you saying they shouldn't be doing that?

That is why you're seen as trolling. You're treating other peoples' attempts to improve the language - which is what Rust expects of its developers - as evidence that Rust is not fit for purpose.

Cheers,
Wol


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