LWN web design
LWN web design
Posted Nov 9, 2009 9:33 UTC (Mon) by kragil (guest, #34373)In reply to: KS2009: How Google uses Linux by vbeeno
Parent article: KS2009: How Google uses Linux
I think hiring a web designer from this century (new colours, css stuff) could really improve this site. I am not talking lot of JS or Flash, just a newer more modern look.
Kernel hackers seem to complain that new blood is lacking, but for an ignorant observer a lot of stuff seems stuck in 1996.(just compare Rails,Gnome,KDE,etc news and planet sites to what the kernel has .. )
I won't even mention microblogging :)
Posted Nov 9, 2009 10:32 UTC (Mon)
by k8to (guest, #15413)
[Link]
Posted Nov 9, 2009 12:59 UTC (Mon)
by quotemstr (subscriber, #45331)
[Link] (15 responses)
Posted Nov 9, 2009 14:17 UTC (Mon)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (14 responses)
Posted Nov 9, 2009 15:00 UTC (Mon)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (13 responses)
In what way is the LWN.net design not »good«? It does what it is supposed
to do in a very unobtrusive way -- unlike many of the newer sites. Not
chasing after the latest visual fashions does not automatically make its
layout, fonts, and colours »bad«. Exactly what about these do you think is
keeping new
users away?
(Having said that, table-based layout isn't exactly the done thing these
days, but you only addressed »layout, fonts, and colours«, not HTML-level
implementation, and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing whatsoever
wrong with those. Also, registered users can tweak the colours to their
own liking, and it probably wouldn't be impossible to allow the fonts to
be tweaked, too.)
I'm sure that the LWN.net team will welcome constructive hints as to how
to improve the LWN.net »experience« without giving up the strengths of the
site, i.e., no-frills Linux info and commentary. For the time being,
however, I'd much rather Jon & co. spend their time on giving us the
best Linux news possible than chase the newest fads in web design. After
all, people come here for the content, not to see great web design.
Posted Nov 9, 2009 15:57 UTC (Mon)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (12 responses)
And I am no web designer, but AFAIK you can do a lot of nice stuff with just CSS (even rounded corners etc.). A lot of small changes done by a professional would certainly add up. And it would still be backwards compatible and no-frills.
Just read a few comments on the link above to look beyond your little bubble.
Posted Nov 9, 2009 16:46 UTC (Mon)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (11 responses)
Right. Rounded corners. Rounded corners will definitely make all the
difference! Honestly, if you can't come up with better suggestions than
this ...
I just had a look at the comments on the Digg article you quoted above and
I'm not convinced that encouraging that sort of crowd to come here is
something Jon & co. should spend time and energy on. If the web design
is what keeps them away then I would surely recommend keeping
things as they are.
(Incidentally, looking at the Digg site itself, I'll take current LWN.net
over the Digg design any day, thank you very much. Maybe it's just me, but
I like my fonts readable and navigation where I can actually find it. Also
very incidentally, unlike you I in fact pay LWN.net money every
month so they can keep doing what they are doing so well. I
wonder how many of the Digg users you revere so much would -- even if
LWN.net looked like Digg?)
Posted Nov 9, 2009 23:26 UTC (Mon)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (10 responses)
Posted Nov 9, 2009 23:40 UTC (Mon)
by quotemstr (subscriber, #45331)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Nov 10, 2009 0:22 UTC (Tue)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Nov 13, 2009 1:11 UTC (Fri)
by foom (subscriber, #14868)
[Link]
Love Craig's List but hate how painful and ugly it is? Me too. So I made Marketplace. It takes the
pain and ugly out and leaves the good stuff in.
Posted Nov 10, 2009 0:10 UTC (Tue)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (6 responses)
If your resources are limited (as LWN.net's are) it makes sense to stay
away from stuff that is essentially eye candy for people who must always
have the latest and greatest, and concentrate on stuff that benefits
all your readers, like compelling content. If I was in charge of
HTML/CSS development for LWN.net, I would consider some changes but they
would not in the first instance touch the visual appearance -- I would
probably move to a purely CSS-based (instead of table-based) layout to
make the site more accessible. I might change some of the visual design
but only to improve readability, not to make substantial changes to the
layout as it appears. IMHO, such changes would be worthwhile but they
would not be changes for change's sake the way you seem to be advocating.
(Feel free to suggest anything specific that will actually improve
the reader's experience if you can think of something.)
As far as Google is concerned, when the site was new it looked completely
unlike all the other search engines precisely because it
went back to the basics and presented essentially a logo, text entry
widget
and search button. In spite of this »conservative attitude« it
still went on to become the most popular search engine on the planet.
Again, it was the content that made the difference, not the (lack of)
bling; people were attracted more by the good results Google produced than
they were turned off by the straightforward appearance. Also, in spite of
not changing its appearance substantially during the last decade or so,
www.google.com isn't likely to go away anytime soon, either.
Finally, the »big stream of money« from subscribers is, to a large degree,
what keeps LWN.net going. Jon & co. may, in fact, be very interested
in updating their web design but perhaps they can't afford to spend the
time or money at this moment. So if you want them to be able to
contemplate non-essential tasks like HTML/CSS hacking, instead of whining
about how LWN.net will go away if they don't »adapt« you should really
contribute to their bottom line by taking out a subscription, which will
certainly have a much greater impact than any amount of whining.
Posted Nov 10, 2009 1:11 UTC (Tue)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Nov 10, 2009 10:51 UTC (Tue)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (4 responses)
This is getting silly. If you can't point to anything specific and
constructive that you would actually change to improve LWN.net
other than »use rounded corners, they're cool« this must mean that the
site isn't so bad to begin with, so I'll politely and respectfully suggest
you shut up.
Posted Nov 10, 2009 12:06 UTC (Tue)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (3 responses)
Get a good web designer that knows modern web design (page layout, usability, style, colours, logo etc.) and have him/her improve the crappy first impression this site makes. That may or may not include rounded corners. I don't know as I am not a web designer as I already mentioned and explained that that was just one tiny technical example, which still does not fit into your brain. All I know is that this sites design (unprofessional logo with green font, annoying flashy ads, black,red or blue text, grey and orange boxes, no advanced CSS etc.) undeniably makes a bad impression, which does not help anybody.
Posted Nov 10, 2009 12:31 UTC (Tue)
by hppnq (guest, #14462)
[Link]
Posted Nov 10, 2009 12:33 UTC (Tue)
by quotemstr (subscriber, #45331)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Nov 10, 2009 12:40 UTC (Tue)
by nye (subscriber, #51576)
[Link]
LWN web design
LWN web design
LWN web design
But it sure as hell does not appeal to new subscribers (in general)
And the general lack of good web design (I am talking good layout, fonts and colours .. not JS, Flash or anything) is probably keeping new contributors and so some extend even new Linux users away.
LWN web design
LWN web design
I don't think a more professional look would be bad for LWN. Quite the opposite.
LWN web design
LWN web design
I just think a more professional more modern look that appeals to _more_ people (not just digg users) and makes a good impression has no downsides, but a lot of people hate change and want to do and have things the same until eternity. Fine I guess that is how life conditions them in the long run, I just happen to have a less conservative attitude and most websites that never change and don't adapt have a good change of dying, even with the big stream of money you send their way.
LWN web design
most websites that never change and don't adapt have a good change of dying
Yes, but that adaption doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of the latest design trends. Objectively speaking, LWN is perfectly usable. What you're objecting to is LWN's not following web fashion. Not following web fashion hasn't seemed to hurt craigslist, despite the existence of many more hip competitors.
LWN web design
I just noticed the program "Marketplace":
LWN web design
Marketplace... Craig's List. Without the Ugly.
I agree with the other comments that LWN could do with some sprucing up. It doesn't really bother
me that it's currently ugly, I still read (and pay for) it. But I wouldn't mind it being nicer, either, and
it might keep other readers from running in terror.
LWN web design
LWN web design
And I suggested that you google for CSS capabilities and designs.
LWN web design
LWN web design
This doesn't have cost a lot. There are a lot of talented young web monkeys out there that don't charge a lot per hour. First thing though is to acknowledge that not everything is peachy.
Another cup of Open Source, anyone?
LWN web design
My original point, if I may flesh it out a bit, is that the kind of person bothered by LWN's layout probably won't get much out of LWN's content in the first place. LWN's attraction to me is the deep, literate, and mature coverage, and to a lesser extent, the informative and useful comment section. I couldn't care less how the site looks, and would be just as happy (no, happier) if I could read it over NNTP. Changing lwn.net to pander to the Digg crowd would compromise what makes LWN worthwhile in the first place. Franky, the kind of person who judges a site based on how Web 2.0 it is would find the articles here boring, and would post vapid comments saying so. It'd be an Eternal September.
LWN web design
LWN web design