Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Sources close to Novell indicate that a deal with Microsoft concerning Linux will be announced today, Nov. 2, at 2 PM Pacific time in San Francisco. While this may sound as likely as George Bush and John Kerry singing a duet together, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that Microsoft Corp. will be announcing it will offer sales support for Novell Inc.'s SUSE Linux family."
Posted Nov 2, 2006 22:31 UTC (Thu)
by louie (guest, #3285)
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Posted Nov 2, 2006 22:39 UTC (Thu)
by drag (guest, #31333)
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Posted Nov 2, 2006 23:13 UTC (Thu)
by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
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If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all. For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.
So, if there ever comes a day where Microsoft sues, if Novell tells its customers "don't worry, you're covered", it would seem that Novell's license to distribute the kernel would terminate. This is a point that Red Hat can make: I don't think Microsoft can't threaten Red Hat and leave Novell alone if they are both shipping the same technology (though maybe Novell could terminate the agreement or something).
Maybe Novell did negotiate a strong agreement. They have a good enough patent portfolio that perhaps there are some patents that Microsoft is worried about.
Posted Nov 2, 2006 23:46 UTC (Thu)
by ofeeley (guest, #36105)
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Posted Nov 3, 2006 0:09 UTC (Fri)
by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
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Posted Nov 2, 2006 22:56 UTC (Thu)
by kune (guest, #172)
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Novell is certainly interested in official support by Microsoft in the virtualization space. But whether
Posted Nov 3, 2006 0:20 UTC (Fri)
by sammythesnake (guest, #17693)
[Link] (4 responses)
I've often said "I don't hate microsoft, just everything they do" with the obvious corollary that if their behaviour is vastly improved, I would quite like that...
Cheers & God bless
Posted Nov 3, 2006 1:52 UTC (Fri)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (3 responses)
that beign said, I don't think it has happened yet, but don't rule it out for the future.
David Lang
Posted Nov 3, 2006 9:51 UTC (Fri)
by dark (guest, #8483)
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Posted Nov 3, 2006 20:20 UTC (Fri)
by Max.Hyre (subscriber, #1054)
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Posted Nov 10, 2006 18:23 UTC (Fri)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
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Some historical corrections:
As the linked article says, there was no decision in the 1969 IBM antitrust case. The Reagan administration dropped the case in 1982, saying the government had no case.
However, it is true that the case caused IBM to be much more open than it had been. In the years the government was pressing the case, IBM became much more conservative about the activities the government was alleging to be illegal, which led to such things as documenting interfaces. (IBM reacted the same way to the SCO suit, which was a much weaker complaint: IBM became more conservative about copying Linux).
I was doing engineering for IBM in those days, and having the documented interfaces was fantastic. I don't think companies ever write documentation for their employees as good as they do for the public. IBM doesn't document those interfaces anymore, and even IBM employees now have to do a lot of reverse engineering of IBM products.
The famous antitrust case that IBM lost was filed in 1952 over the fact that IBM wouldn't sell its computers to anyone (it only leased them), and some related business practices.
But I think the change dlang referred to might be IBM's adoption of Linux and open standards in 2000. IBM did that for one reason only: to combat the market leader. So there's no applicability to Microsoft. Back when IBM was the market leader, IBM did not support open standards, and the most important standard in the industry was "what the IBM product does."
Toward the end of that era, IBM did go open-standards with ISA (i.e. IBM PC). Many people call that a huge business blunder that had a big part in handing ownership of the computer industry over to Microsoft, thus locking IBM into the role of Linux/open standards advocate today.
Posted Nov 2, 2006 23:28 UTC (Thu)
by dale77 (guest, #1490)
[Link] (10 responses)
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html
Dale
Posted Nov 2, 2006 23:46 UTC (Thu)
by dale77 (guest, #1490)
[Link] (9 responses)
1. Novell will develop tools to manage virtualized Windows machines, and Microsoft will develop tools to manage virtualized Linux systems.
A prediction: Microsoft will develop first class support for virtualized server linux systems. Novell will stumble and stutter and fail to deliver.
2. Novell will develop the code necessary to bring support for Office Open XML into OpenOffice, and we will contribute that support back to the OpenOffice.org organization.
A prediction: Novell (with microsoft's help) will develop second class support for MSOffice's file format on linux. Whither OpenDoc?
Novell certainly have done a great job of ripping the mainstream desktop out of Suse Linux. With this news I fear that the transition of Suse from a great desktop linux to a second class Microsoft clone is complete.
Dale
Posted Nov 3, 2006 1:22 UTC (Fri)
by thebluesgnr (guest, #37963)
[Link] (1 responses)
1) Sun will not add them to OpenOffice.org;
2) the community can improve it so it's good enough for inclusion in OO.org.
Unless you're suggesting it's bad to provide interoperability for Office's new file format, I don't see a reason to complain (on this particular side of the announcement).
Posted Nov 7, 2006 2:49 UTC (Tue)
by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458)
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Posted Nov 3, 2006 1:58 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
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I have to completely dissagree with this one.
Novell has done a great job in improving the Linux desktop. Much better then any other company. Usability testing, desktop search, improvements in Gnome apps, etc etc
The only sucky part on Novell's part is it manifested itself in Ubuntu desktop and not so much in Suse's.
Posted Nov 3, 2006 2:05 UTC (Fri)
by thebluesgnr (guest, #37963)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Nov 3, 2006 2:27 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
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Things like Desktop search. Improvements in evolution and such. Integration of Mono. Especially things like Wireless support. A lot of that is directly due to Novell. Who hasn't used Ubuntu on a laptop and not use Network-manager? You have Novell to thank for that peice of software.
Novell has done a number of usability studies for Gnome and that sort of thing and have solved a lot of problems baring 'mainstream' acceptance of Gnome-based desktop systems.
These sort of improvements, of course, have made their way back to Ubuntu. Then people use Ubuntu and they talk about how nice it is and how wireless is good and such, while Suse hasn't gotten so much attention even though this is were this stuff is coming from.
So Ubuntu benifits more then Suse from work Novell has done _specificly_ to improve Desktop usability in Linux.
To say that Novell has stripped out the 'mainstream desktop' from Suse is a HUGE disservice to them. They have put a lot of work into it and have done a lot.
Posted Nov 3, 2006 8:59 UTC (Fri)
by alexl (subscriber, #19068)
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Posted Nov 3, 2006 9:31 UTC (Fri)
by ofeeley (guest, #36105)
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Posted Nov 3, 2006 3:06 UTC (Fri)
by dale77 (guest, #1490)
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Dale
Posted Nov 3, 2006 8:25 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
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Posted Nov 3, 2006 2:54 UTC (Fri)
by barbara (guest, #3014)
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Posted Nov 3, 2006 10:47 UTC (Fri)
by ofeeley (guest, #36105)
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1. http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2006/11...
Posted Nov 3, 2006 16:09 UTC (Fri)
by tjc (guest, #137)
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Posted Nov 4, 2006 15:00 UTC (Sat)
by Blaisorblade (guest, #25465)
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Posted Nov 4, 2006 18:10 UTC (Sat)
by tjc (guest, #137)
[Link]
As far as the feature set -- in the context of the original quote -- I think the author is close, but not quite right. NT was functional (sort of), but Linux was a bit more than a "gleam." You can't boot a gleam, whereas you could boot Linux 0.1, even if you couldn't actually do much with it. Anyway, this is all off-topic to the central issue of Novell's recent bad decisions. I guess we now have a "bad" Linux vendor to replace SCO when they finally go under.
And the Journal's article claims that 'Microsoft won't assert rights over patents over software technology that may be incorporated into Suse Linux'. It will be very interesting to see how that non-assert is worded, how broad it is, etc.
patent non-assert?
I think this is just subtly disguised software patent cross-licensing agreement announcement between Microsoft and Novell.patent non-assert?
It will be interesting to see how this is worded. Either Microsoft just gave up the right to ever sue over patent infringement in any Linux kernel version once Novell ships it, or Novell may have a legal issue if they accepted a more narrow agreement. The GPL section 7 states
patent non-assert?
Does this remove the usefulness of Novell's contributions to the OSDL Patent Commons? i.e. the press release says that one strand of the deal is to provide each other's customers with patent coverage. Or did Novell just have it's part of the Patent Commons neutralised?
I don't think so; there are other parties besides Microsoft that might sue.
Or did Novell just have it's part of the Patent Commons neutralised?
While we are guessing, I believe this deal has a lot to do with antitrust charges in Europe and patent non-assert?
elsewhere and will be also used as an argument in the software patent discussions. Probably this is
the deal for Microsoft.
it is Windows on Xen or Linux on a Microsoft virtualization solution needs to be seen.
Suits me fine. This is, after all, the point of the anti-trust legislation.patent non-assert?
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny
everyone should remember that IBM used to be hated every bit as much as microsoft is hated today (and for similar reasons), IBM saw the light and decided to change. it's not impossible that the same thing could happen to microsoft as well.patent non-assert?
IBM is lobbying for software patents in Europe. It's profiting from the free software movement in the short run, but seeks to destroy it in the long run. IBM is not a friend.
IBM didn't change much.
IBM ``saw the light'' with the help of an actually-useful
antitrust
decision. They were stomping on independent companies
who were making ``plug-compatible hardware'', i.e., plug it
in and it just works. The decision required IBM document,
in detail, every hardware interface they built. I've worked
from such documentation, and it's irreplaceable for IHVs.
Decisions to change
Decisions to change
A couple of links from novell. In my opinion the last couple of nails in the coffin of a once great desktop linux distro.Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
A couple of comments from the "to the open source community" letter:Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
If support for MSOffice's new file formats is bad then:Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
2) the community can improve it so it's good enough for inclusion in OO.org.
Can't do. All "covered by MSFT patents" and stuff.
"Novell certainly have done a great job of ripping the mainstream desktop out of Suse Linux. With this news I fear that the transition of Suse from a great desktop linux to a second class Microsoft clone is complete."Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
The only sucky part on Novell's part is it manifested itself in Ubuntu desktop and not so much in Suse's.Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Huh?
Well you know how Gnome has improve considurably in the past few years and people praise Ubuntu for providing a nice desktop?Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Network manager was written by Dan Williams at RedHat.Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
And its functionality depends heavily on HAL (primarily authored by David Zeuthen another Red Hat employee) and D-BUS (primarily authored by Havoc Pennington and Alex Larsson). Yes I know a lot of people got left out of those attributions, I just get sick of Red Hat not getting credit for all the basic work and development they contribute while everyone oohs and aahs over Ubuntu.Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Hey, its only my opinion. Novell have made some strange decisions with Suse since they bought it, the biggest being the switch from desktop KDE to corporate gnome. Their emphasis has shifted from SLES + Suse PRO, to SLES, SLED. They have abandoned the desktop to OpenSuse.Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Well they were doing Gnome before they bought Suse. Makes sense that they just kept on using what they started off with.Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
I don't think this is a good deal for the Linux community. Remember the Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Corel deal with Microsoft. Here are the details:
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-246486.html .
There's a good Infoworld piece by Matt Asay that argues that although Novell may get a boost for a couple of months they're screwed by this in the long-term because they're diluting what could be their core value: open source. He argues that Red Hat on the other hand have a consistent, clear commitment to open source and open standards and that the market has clearly voted for that and against Novell's "mixed source" dithering in the past and that this process will happen again. Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Before Linux was a gleam in Linus Torvalds' eye, Microsoft with NT and Novell with NetWare warred over the PC local area networks.
I seem to remember that Linux preceeded Windows NT by at least 2 years.
Windows NT 3.11 was there about 1993, Linux 0.1 in 1991 but would you compare their feature set?Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Novell and Microsoft partnering on Linux? (Linux-Watch)
Windows NT 3.11 was there about 1993, Linux 0.1 in 1991 but would you compare their feature set?
That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure. I have vague memories of OS/2 fading, and NT appearing at about the same time.