LWN: Comments on "Jami "Taranis" released"

Jami "Taranis" released

bandali — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 18:26:43 +0000

Indeed. Though I'll just clarify that even though bootstrap.jami.net is used as the default bootstrap node, it doesn't have to be, and can be easily changed from Jami's advanced settings to point to any other reachable machine running OpenDHT -- including another device running Jami and OpenDHT on your local network. Or you could use a DHT proxy (disabled by default on desktop/laptop, but enabled on mobile as it helps reduce battery usage) instead of having Jami running an OpenDHT node on your device. Similarly to the bootstrap node, the address for the DHT proxy can also easily be changed to point away from the default servers. Likewise for the TURN server address.

More details in the Jami FAQ: https://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/jami-project/-/wiki...

Jami "Taranis" released

bandali — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 17:56:59 +0000

To be clear, if you're referring to the build.py[1] script, it is *not* the "build system" for Jami, but rather a convenience script to install the dependencies from your distro's repos (for supported distros) and build the various parts of Jami for you. You certainly don't have to use build.py, and are more than welcome to do the installing of the dependencies and building of Jami's parts manually if you wish -- a good starting point would be our package definitions for various distros[2] or the package definition for each part of Jami in your distro's official repos if they've already packaged Jami.

For actual build systems, Jami currently uses/supports a mixture of GNU Autotools, CMake, and Meson.

[1] https://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/jami-project/-/blob...
[2] https://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/jami-project/-/tree...

Jami "Taranis" released

bandali — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 17:44:50 +0000

> Is there an automated test suite?

We do indeed have a test suite:
https://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/jami-daemon/-/tree/...
https://docs.jami.net/coverage/

> I couldn't find whether Jami uses WebRTC (which would save a lot of QA)

Jami does not use WebRTC, at least not currently. The communication
stack is mainly PJSIP for media + OpenDHT for some messages.

Jami "Taranis" released

droundy — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 02:55:41 +0000

They run a TURN server to get through NATs. Seems reasonable. They also have a few other servers required for bootstrapping to the DHT, receiving push notifications while running in the background on mobile, etc.

Jami "Taranis" released

callegar — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 23:07:45 +0000

My main problem with Jami is that it is ultimately SIP based, so you cannot use it easily together with other SIP clients because it wants the same ports. This should be no problem, because Jami claims to support "standard" SIP accounts, so there should be no need to use other SIP clients with it. However, its pool of audio codecs is so limited that it is almost impossible to use it with commercial SIP providers.

Jami "Taranis" released

KJ7RRV — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 22:25:06 +0000

Doesn't being peer to peer imply it wouldn't work well behind NAT and firewalls?

Jami "Taranis" released

marcH — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 17:58:14 +0000

> As it is, the only thing that stands out here in a heavily saturated market of too-cool-for-interop networks is “it's GNU!” — great if you want a way to communicate exclusively with other GNU fanatics, but otherwise a negative for most who understand what that implies.

Is there an automated test suite? This type of tool is one of the hardest to test, emulating many hosts and various network conditions between them is a huge challenge. QA is what makes the difference in this heavily saturated market between which software is popular and which is not. Some tool does not work? Switch to another one, problem solved.

Whether the source of the product is available or not, the QA of company-sponsored software is usually unknown. It's like developers write bug-free code by magic (they don't). Maybe that's why so many open-source projects believe tests are not important: they don't realize they have to compete with something they don't know exists :-)

I couldn't find whether Jami uses WebRTC (which would save a lot of QA)

Jami "Taranis" released

Moarc — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 12:18:54 +0000

It's peer-to-peer instead of a federation of servers, with an identity based around the user's public key, for which you can optionally register a nickname (in a way which evokes the ever-fashionable blockchain, the nickname being tied to that key once and for all - I'm not sure if they're actually using a blockchain for this, though).

It also doesn't try to poorly reinvent XMPP.

Jami "Taranis" released

rav — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 10:42:59 +0000

For what it's worth, I just found the current build.py script and it has package lists for distros based on apt, dnf, pacman and zypper, so maybe it will work for you now. https://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/jami-project/-/blob...

Jami "Taranis" released

Cyberax — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:18:22 +0000

Oh. They're making a mistake of separating video/voice data from the signalling path. Bad idea.

Jami "Taranis" released

spaetz — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:14:27 +0000

Spec changing proposal:
https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/matthew/gro...

It has, or rather it is on the way. Native audio/video which does not depend in a jitsu widget is high on their list.

Jami "Taranis" released

KJ7RRV — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:05:22 +0000

Element for Android gives the option for both voice and video calling. It might be a nonstandard extension.

https://ibb.co/whYxDy7

Jami "Taranis" released

Cyberax — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 06:47:53 +0000

I don't think so? As far as I understand, there's no standard spec for VoIP signalling/transport over Matrix.

Market isn't really saturated...

intelfx — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 03:25:37 +0000

As an impartial passerby, I can't help but notice that you yourself don't really seem to be commenting in good faith. Try to use less inflammatory bait language?

Jami "Taranis" released

KJ7RRV — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 23:56:19 +0000

Doesn't matrix support voice?

Jami "Taranis" released

Cyberax — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 22:44:05 +0000

How is it different from Matrix? Except for voice support, that is.

Jami "Taranis" released

dullfire — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 22:27:00 +0000

Back when it was still called "GNU Ring" I thought it looked interesting. However when I ran into a python based build system with hard coded distro dependencies (and attempts to use the distro's package manager from the python script), I gave up since the work to build it would have been too large .

Maybe they've improved it (haven't looked), but that sadly cooled my interest quite a bit.

Market isn't really saturated...

flussence — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 21:55:26 +0000

You don't seem to be reading my posts in good faith at all. I'm done here.

Market isn't really saturated...

Herve5 — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 20:00:40 +0000

I'm no 'GNU fanatic' nor a 'geopolitical threat' :-)
But from your two posts I understand absolutely nothing is worth, then.
Should I register back to Skype?

Market isn't really saturated...

flussence — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 19:30:56 +0000

If you need Tor-like network obfuscation as a matter of physical safety from geopolitical threats, then absolutely do not use *any* software that runs on a bespoke mesh network. It'd take all of 5 minutes for a coerced ISP to query their metadata logs for customers exhibiting unusual P2P traffic patterns in a given place and time, assuming the mechanisms they have in place for obeying Hadopi don't automatically alert them first.

This is an inflatable pooltoy, not a life-preserving device.

Market isn't really saturated...

Herve5 — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 18:19:37 +0000

If you require
- open source apps
- encrypted comms
- serverless
- TOR-like channel scrambling,

actually there remain extremely few...
Briar, Session, Tox?
Does the new Jami swarm concept addresses channel scrambling?

The fourth criterion isn't negligible as ‘even’ my western European country, France, recently activated an international agreement to demand, and obtain, sender/receiver IPs in a recent very, very small issue (tracking people that merely wanted to organize demonstrations).

Jami "Taranis" released

flussence — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 17:50:37 +0000

From the feature set, this sounds like it wants to be a better clone of what Skype was before M$ bought and destroyed it. Maybe they should lean into that in their advertising, like Discord infamously did (before repeatedly screwing its userbase).

As it is, the only thing that stands out here in a heavily saturated market of too-cool-for-interop networks is “it's GNU!” — great if you want a way to communicate exclusively with other GNU fanatics, but otherwise a negative for most who understand what that implies.