LWN: Comments on "Turmoil at the freenode IRC network"

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

flussence — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 04:30:38 +0000

Here's an alternative tracker that jumped through those hoops: https://www.hinner.com/ircstat/Socip_F.html

The effect of this proprietary login gimmick seems to be catastrophic for their activity *on top of* what already transpired in 2Q2021. I wouldn't be surprised if (and am hopeful) the whole thing vanishes from the internet.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

mathstuf — Wed, 04 Aug 2021 14:30:50 +0000

Out of curiosity, I've been checking in every now and then at this top 10 graph[1] to watch the downfall. It seems that things are finally over with Freenode? The website is up, but connecting now needs some other account setup?

[1]https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

Philantrop — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 21:02:40 +0000

They actually did that: https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_suicide

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

pabs — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 00:55:17 +0000

There are now rumours that the new freenode owners are planning to drop their user database and start from scratch with a new codebase and new owners. Also these global notices appeared:

[Global Notice 1/3] We are moving past legacy freenode to a new fork. The new freenode is launched. You will slowly be disconnected and when you reconnect, you will be on the new freenode. We patiently await to welcome you in freedom's holdout - the freenode.
[Global Notice 2/3] If you're looking to connect now, you can already /server chat.freenode.net 6697 (ssl) or 6667 (plaintext). It's a new genesis for a new era. Thank you for using freenode, and Hello World, from the future. freenode is IRC. freenode is FOSS. freenode is freedom.
[Global Notice 3/3] When you connect, register your nickname and your channel and get started. It's a new world. We're so happy to welcome you and the millions of others. We will be posting more information in the coming days on our website and twitter. Otherwise, see you on the other side!

https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KPXwdzD9Yf/ https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/raw/Exiq8XAu

Private Internet Access

nybble41 — Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:47:46 +0000

> This statement conspicuously avoids any mention of Lee. I don’t see why or how it indicates he’s no longer involved?

Lee's interest in PIA was through the London Trust Media, Inc. (LTMI) holding company. The sale to Kape Technologies means that Lee no longer owns or controls PIA. It was LTMI, not Kape or PIA, which was involved in the Freenode incident.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

pabs — Tue, 01 Jun 2021 02:43:20 +0000

A list of projects that left:

https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

ceplm — Mon, 31 May 2021 14:00:52 +0000

Or trust. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0684825252

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

yokem_55 — Sun, 30 May 2021 18:17:53 +0000

This comes from a very different context, but this episode is a good example of legitimacy being a scarce resource.

What happened with OFTC?

JanC_ — Thu, 27 May 2021 20:46:40 +0000

One reason would be that OFTC doesn’t have the same features to control the channel namespace of a project/community.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

JanC_ — Thu, 27 May 2021 20:43:37 +0000

They did the same with many channels that never left Freenode but just referred to an alternative sister channel, and even at least one project that weren’t actively planning to move their official channels but (to stop the many questions about a move) just had a link to a web page where they said they would decide whether to stay or move once the dust settled.

Freenode stealing & blocking these channels pretty much forced all these channels to move.

Private Internet Access

dsommers — Thu, 27 May 2021 20:40:04 +0000

It's registered in Delaware, US, iirc.

What happened with OFTC?

ocrete — Thu, 27 May 2021 20:39:50 +0000

I always assumed that there was bad blood between the OFTC and FreeNode/LiberaChat teams, but the article above mentions that they were actually working together. As a user, the multiplication of IRC networks is a bit of pain and I'd be curious to know why the Libera people felt they needed to create a new network instead of propose a mass-migration to OFTC?

Private Internet Access

JanC_ — Thu, 27 May 2021 20:34:09 +0000

London Trust Media was renamed to (or part of its assets were taken over by?) Imperial Family Companies[1]. I assume this refers to him pretending to be the crown prince of Korea…

And London Trust Media sold PIA in 2019 to Kape Technologies[2], a company that has been linked with spreading malware[3] (which is one of the reasons why people don’t trust Andrew Lee).

[1] https://imperialfamily.com/
[2] https://www.techradar.com/news/cyberghost-owner-buys-pia-...
[3] https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-kape-technologies-what-...

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

ghane — Thu, 27 May 2021 14:57:08 +0000

This is linked in the article, so I am just mentioning it again in case readers might have glossed over it:
https://gist.github.com/prawnsalad/4ca20da6c2295ddb06c164...

Private Internet Access

smurf — Thu, 27 May 2021 14:33:44 +0000

That's not at all unusual.

Private Internet Access

h2g2bob — Thu, 27 May 2021 10:21:05 +0000

London Trust Media does not appear to be registered in the UK.

But Freenode Ltd is: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10308021/officers

It looks like Lee is the only director and is majority shareholder. PIA and LTM are not mentioned.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

immibis — Thu, 27 May 2021 10:07:41 +0000

The bot "locked" the channel, and then redirected it to a ## version of the same channel, which is an unofficial channel not run by the actual project team.

Freenode is saying: fine, your team can leave, but we are making this channel unofficial and keeping your users!

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

zblaxell — Thu, 27 May 2021 01:38:42 +0000

freenodecom enters channel, changed topic, deops original ops, then mode +i +m set, then ban list cleared, in that order, in the same second.

Yes some channels got out before the bot came, but the ones cleared by the bot left the channel closed.

Private Internet Access

Paf — Thu, 27 May 2021 01:13:27 +0000

This statement conspicuously avoids any mention of Lee. I don’t see why or how it indicates he’s no longer involved?

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

idra — Thu, 27 May 2021 00:23:04 +0000

Yes, channels were hijacked, but the "invite" only part was intntional pre-hijacking, in many cases.

These instructions circulated: https://gist.github.com/nurupo/91b0ebc7f85059b57ea7108a25...

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

bentley — Thu, 27 May 2021 00:02:23 +0000

I think this is pretty in line with silicon valley VC tactics though: spend money to obtain users, and then pivot to start monetizing the users. It seems that Lee maybe wanted to start using Freenode to advertise his companies? Whatever the plan was, it looks like it backfired spectacularly.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

Trelane — Wed, 26 May 2021 23:59:10 +0000

No, e.g. https://www.gentoo.org/news/2021/05/26/gentoo-freenode-ch...

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

flussence — Wed, 26 May 2021 23:42:09 +0000

Having let my morbid curiosity get the better of me this past week, I think this is a good summary that cuts off at the right time, just before it breaches the bottomless awful insanity at the margins.

It'd be hard to factually report on most of the other things Lee has done over the last six days in a way that doesn't come across like bullying a small child. This person can't be trusted to operate a toaster, never mind a social network.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

idra — Wed, 26 May 2021 23:33:21 +0000

It's the other way around, previous channel owners locked the channel before leaving for good, as a way to indicate their users that the community has moved.

The hijacking bot removes the restrictions and set things to pretend the channel is still alive and well...

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

flussence — Wed, 26 May 2021 23:28:12 +0000

It's in line with Lee's apparent attitude that he bought several thousand users like they're trading cards for him to use as he pleases, though.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

randomguy3 — Wed, 26 May 2021 22:09:20 +0000

I guess that could be seen as archiving the channel, in some sense? It seems like a strangely aggressive thing to do, though, if you don't *want* a channel's community to move.

Private Internet Access

nybble41 — Wed, 26 May 2021 21:58:09 +0000

This was PIA's official statement on the matter[0]:

> Private Internet Access has no connection to Freenode at all anymore. PIA was owned by London Trust Media, but Kape acquired PIA in December of 2019 and has had no connection since then. We do not have any involvement or knowledge of any takeover of Freenode.

This aligns with what I've seen in other discussions, that Andrew Lee may have been the founder of PIA but later sold it and has nothing to do with its current management or operation.

[0] https://twitter.com/buyvpnservice/status/1395212901544337411

Private Internet Access

vstinner — Wed, 26 May 2021 21:56:39 +0000

Extract of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Internet_Access : " In 2018, former Mt. Gox CEO Mark Karpelès was named chief technology officer of PIA's parent company, London Trust Media." and "The company was founded by the American-born Andrew Lee."

By the way, the Wikipedia article also says "London Trust Media also owns the Freenode IRC network" since December 21, 2017.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

zblaxell — Wed, 26 May 2021 21:53:27 +0000

> flips some mode bits.

OK, some of those mode bits are "moderated" and "invite-only", so maybe the lack of chatter and falling user count are not surprising.

Turmoil at the freenode IRC network

zblaxell — Wed, 26 May 2021 21:45:01 +0000

> It would seem that mentioning "Libera" in the topic of any channel on freenode is enough to have the channel taken over by the freenode staff

Can confirm the Freenode channel gets taken over by something that identifies itself as freenodecom, wipes the operator and ban lists, and flips some mode bits.

A few percent of users had joined matching channels on both IRC networks before that happened--now it's more like 40% across a highly unrepresentative set of random channels. Many of the regulars who had been lurking in both channels have now dropped the Freenode one. Not a single word has been spoken on the Freenode channel since then. while the Libera equivalent has normal activity. It seems users already know where they need to go, and Freenode's new /topic policy is only telling them they need to get there faster.

Some other channels that did not mention the "L" word in /topic (but did mention it in-channel) have apparently not been disrupted.

Some channels kicked all their users with "see you on Libera" before Freenode got the chance to mess with them.

Private Internet Access

nix — Wed, 26 May 2021 21:36:33 +0000

Presumably this is for the same reason it was so hard to figure out the membership of Freenode Ltd's board: Andrew Lee wanted to conceal the fact that it was a one-man band so he could gain fake authority by saying "the board has decided" when he actually meant "I decided".

Private Internet Access

garrison — Wed, 26 May 2021 21:21:02 +0000

What is Andrew Lee's current relationship with Private Internet Access? The "PIA Team" link at the bottom of their web page unhelpfully redirects to their "About Us" page, which does not list members of the team.