LWN: Comments on "Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out"

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

ceplm — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 12:09:19 +0000

> Oh, come on. Python 2 will be supported at least until 2027 because it’s in RHEL7.

Well, I wouldn't count for more than Q4 2020 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux#Pr...), then RHEL-7 quickly sinks into "no bugfixes unless the aircraft career sinks" state.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

ncm — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 17:01:49 +0000

We can get a fair bit more mileage out of 32-bit second-counts by making them unsigned.

That takes us through 2105 without changing epochs. By then, it will be the machines' problem to figure out. They will have much bigger and better reasons to hate us than the Y2106 problem, but I am categorically ill equipped to guess which ones those will be.

Time zones? Nation-states? Java?

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

joib — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 06:22:24 +0000

That would be my guess, yes.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

excors — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:58:01 +0000

I'm not sure that will have a positive effect. By intentionally using words wrongly in an attempt to make them meaningless, you'll make it appear more normal and acceptable for other people to misuse words disingenuously too. That will make it even harder to have rational arguments (which rely on mutual understanding of what you're actually saying), and will empower those who are not trying to be rational and who only care about the emotional response to their words. That is ungood.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

Cyberax — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:45:59 +0000

I try to do the opposite. I insert "fake news" in contexts (especially political ones) where it's clear that it doesn't actually mean news. This way it can be eventually diluted to nothingness.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

zlynx — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 20:13:18 +0000

It isn't "fake" because the Python Foundation has said what they are going to do. If someone else takes over maintenance then good for them.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

sfeam — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:57:05 +0000

I think this rates a "fake news" label because it is a political, or anyhow policy, agenda being pushed rather than a technical one. There is a perfectly valid argument that for stable software it is better long-term to stick with Python 2. I'd even go further than that and say that a promise from python.org to never fiddle again with Python 2 makes it more attractive to stick with it rather than less. I expect Python 2 to be around for many years, and it is less than evident that any holdouts now will in the end migrate to Python 3 rather than to some other language entirely.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

mattdm — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:37:37 +0000

I know this ship has sailed way, way out into the ocean, past even the Here There Be Dragons label, but... please don't use "fake news" to mean "a statement I don't agree with" or even "there's more to it than that", when there's no actual intent to deceive.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

Cyberax — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 18:02:50 +0000

This is fake news, nothing more.

Python2 is still used by numerous huge projects and so Py2 is going to be maintained pretty much forever. If Python Foundation stops doing it, someone else will step up.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

vstinner — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 14:30:11 +0000

Y2038 issue is wider than just the kernel. Many binary formats (like .gz and .pcap) encode time as seconds since Epoch in 32-bit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem#Data_stru...

TCP timestamp is 32-bit but doesn't require to use the Unix Epoch as the clock reference. Maybe other network protocols use 32-bit timestamps and will get issues?

I also expect some applications casting time_t to int. I'm quite sure that we don't know well all devices and softwares impacted by this bug :-)

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

teknoraver — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 13:57:21 +0000

Keep in mind that Python2 support will end in 2020

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-March/1...

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

pizza — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 13:29:46 +0000

RHEL7.5 still has 32-bit userspace libraries (at least on x86-64), and I'd be shocked (but pleased) if RHEL8 does not.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

cesarb — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:53:37 +0000

> I wonder if RHEL8 will be the first RHEL to potentially encounter the Y2038 bug?

RHEL 7.5 is 64-bit only, so I believe RHEL 8 will also be 64-bit only, which should reduce a lot of the compatibility pain of fixing Y2038 problems (time_t is already 64 bits on 64-bit Linux). But unless they extend the support period again, RHEL 8 will probably already be out of support by then, so only calculations with dates in the future could encounter potential problems.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

cyperpunks — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:01:57 +0000

So Python 3 and Python 2 swap location for EL8: Python2 in EPEL and Python 3 in distro :-)

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

eru — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:01:48 +0000

It makes sense to exclude it from RHEL8 to avoid supporting it even further into 2030-s.

I wonder if RHEL8 will be the first RHEL to potentially encounter the Y2038 bug?

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

Cyberax — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 08:13:14 +0000

Oh, come on. Python 2 will be supported at least until 2027 because it’s in RHEL7.

It makes sense to exclude it from RHEL8 to avoid supporting it even further into 2030-s.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

joib — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 07:47:37 +0000

Interestingly, and somewhat unsurprisingly, in the release notes (https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_ent...) we have this:

> Python 2 has been deprecated
> Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) major release.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

cesarb — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 15:37:56 +0000

That's for 7.5 beta, the correct link for 7.5 is probably https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_ent...

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.5 is out

Henning — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 15:21:19 +0000

For those looking for the detailed release notes, you can find them here:
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_ent...