LWN: Comments on "Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?"

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

zlynx — Mon, 22 May 2017 16:19:47 +0000

I've run into the accounts missing passwords thing myself. Last time it happened I tracked it down to Gnome's keyring and/or Gnome Onine Accounts failing. And apparently all of its clients assume that it never crashes, and they keep trying to talk to the keyring at the last known DBUS address, forever and ever. In my case, it was repeating a Google authentication without any auth data about 20 times a second.

Stupid.

The error handling in there, or should I say, the LACK of it, is embarrassing.

Thunderbird at least is all one piece and not so dependent on other random systems to operate correctly, so when it fails to authenticate, it knows about it and shows an error message.

Gnome might have fixed this in the last year. I wouldn't know, because I was fed up with GOA randomly burning up my laptop's battery like it was on fire. And who knows what Google thinks about my laptop's repeated attempts at a DOS attack.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

ras — Mon, 22 May 2017 02:54:59 +0000

> Evolution is very stable these days and even more featureful than it used to be.

Yes - it's definitely featureful. It always has been - that's it's attraction. Given that it's odd to see the comments above saying imap support is bad, or syncing contacts and/or calendars with Google doesn't work when my experience is exactly the reverse. Feature wise it does everything I could ask of it.

But stable? It depends on what bit you are referring to I guess. Now they've moved maildir format for their local storage that bit has been rock solid. That was a really, really pleasant change from the previous behaviour of a single (and sadly not uncommon) corruption of the mbox destroying your entire email archive.

But that's about the only part that is. Their threading model is completely borked. They implemented a thread pool and with a cap of 20 or so threads. If you have enough accounts to soak up all those threads and they will become deadlocked, apparently by one thread spawning another and waiting for it to finish but since it never starts .... It happens to me about 1 a day. I reported the bug years ago. (Back then it extended to the spinners they put in the status line deadlocking the UI when there was more than could fit.) There is a simple fix - poll the mailboxes / calendars and whatever serially (or at least put a limit on it) rather than attempting to do it all in parallel, but they resist for some reason.

Their gpg implementation only 1/2 works - when it can't validate a signature it doesn't let you read the email at all. The plain text editor works well enough for plain text - but try to edit text with different "formats" (quoted, indented, numbered list, yada, yada) and it rapidly gets confused. It also used to forget the passwords for all 40 of my email accounts. It hasn't done that in a few months, so maybe it's fixed now. Here's hoping.

For me evolution has been from inception a very pretty, very featureful source of bugs. It is a poster example of what happens when the internal complexities created by that lovely powerful UI overwhelm the programmers to point they can no longer keep the bug count under control.

no great choices

cortana — Tue, 09 May 2017 11:55:58 +0000

Yes, it works fine IME. As for the UI/discoverability: it's just part of GNOME, there is nothing extra to install. In gnome-control-center there is an "online accounts" icon that lists added accounts, lets you add new ones, etc. Under the scenes I believe the contacts/calendar entries live in evolution-data-server, so anything that talks to that via its D-BUS API can make use of them--obviously this includes Evolution as well as GNOME's own 'contacts' and 'calendar' apps.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

raven667 — Fri, 05 May 2017 16:24:55 +0000

I just tried again, searching for a single word I know is present in recent mail, Message Contains in Current Folder (Inbox on O365) and after spinning for a few minutes, Evo 3.22.6-2.fc25.x86_64 crashed and ABRT says that it cannot be reported because it has locked memory therefore no core dump. I guess I didn't recall the details of why I was getting no love on crash reports, it's not that they are languishing in BZ, it's that they aren't easily reportable. My mistake.

no great choices

Wol — Thu, 04 May 2017 05:01:00 +0000

The main issue is address book syncing ... as in

HOW THE BLANKETTY-BLANK DO I STOP IT !!!!!!!

When my wife got her new phone, the first thing it did when I signed it into her gmail account, was POLLUTE her phone book with hundreds of email addresses. Took me ages to clean up the mess. (Seems the default is to sync, and you can't turn off syncing until after you've signed in and it's started the sync!!!)

It's all very well for the youngsters who live on their mobile phone, but for us oldsters a phone is a phone, and a mail client is a mail client, and we'd much rather keep them separate thank you very much.

And unfortunately, along with maturity come a host of other problems - our computer still has a very-heavily-used Virtual XP Box, because the cost in terms of time and aggravation of updating my wife to Windows 7 just isn't worth it. Modern apps etc just are NOT "oldie friendly". That's not to say they aren't friendly, but older people just can't upgrade their brains that fast ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

pabs — Thu, 04 May 2017 01:49:33 +0000

Hmm, I've had pretty good luck submitting crashers to bugzilla in the past.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

flussence — Thu, 04 May 2017 00:58:41 +0000

Took 1½ hours, but I got it working! The only things that tripped me up were having to tell OpenDKIM my LAN computers are allowed to send mail (I guess there's no way for Postfix to inform it that they're already whitelisted), and had to turn off IPv6 in Postfix. GMail didn't like getting mail from a random 6to4 address with no fwd/rev DNS.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

ssmith32 — Wed, 03 May 2017 15:35:12 +0000

If you got SPF working, you can get OpenDKIM + postfix working.
-generate keys per docs
-configure three lines in OpenDKIM, verify it's only listening on localhost:
https://github.com/StuAtGit/SharePlayLearnConfig/blob/mas...
-point your postfix at it as a milter
https://github.com/StuAtGit/SharePlayLearnConfig/blob/mas...

I never got to the spam filter part, but did verify my server's dkim and SPF were verified by Gmail.

For at least as far as I got, when it comes to the inexperienced but techy setting this up, the biggest challenge is figuring out how to debug this stuff - like TLS, it basically works or it doesn't, and the docs around debugging are sometimes hard to find.

But you can send mail to Gmail, and there is some way to dig into more info on the webui that tells you whether they verified your SPF and dkim signature. I just forgot how, and I'm on my phone...

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

raven667 — Wed, 03 May 2017 15:04:49 +0000

Well, at least with my mailbox trying to search the full text content of mail will reliably crash Evo so I've stopped doing it, instead opening up the O365 web interface for searching. I always submit ABRT tracebacks but I don't recall seeing bugzilla messages saying the crashers were ever identified or closed.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

JanC_ — Mon, 01 May 2017 23:41:00 +0000

Some years ago Evolution had various crasher bugs (probably around the time it was ported to Gtk3 and a new web engine for message rendering?), but I haven't seen much of those in recent years indeed.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

JanC_ — Mon, 01 May 2017 23:36:58 +0000

You can mostly just ignore the PIM features in Evolution if you don't use them.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

pizza — Mon, 01 May 2017 12:55:38 +0000

> The real issue for me is not the money for server upkeep, but the daunting task of maintaining a properly functioning spam filter.

Time == Money. :)

That said, I probably haven't spent more than a few hours combined over the past few years dealing with mail server issues (spam included). It largely JustWorks(tm), and I just let spamassassin do its thing.

no great choices

pizza — Mon, 01 May 2017 12:20:42 +0000

Another option is the Horde Groupware Suite -- fully Free Software, and also provides full ActiveSync and DAV support to go with your IMAP/SMTP servers. It's been around forever and JustWorks(tm).

I can personally attest that both Thunderbird and Evolution play well with it, as does Android (via the OS's ActiveSync or via DAVdroid).

no great choices

liam — Mon, 01 May 2017 07:07:00 +0000

Using Google drive via Nautilus is a molasses-filled nightmare.

no great choices

stevan — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:13:46 +0000

A free software option is available, and works well, using nextcloud/owncloud's contact app as a glue, the Inverse SOGO connector under Thunderbird (or Fossmail, which is quite well behaved) and, on hand sets/tablets, carddav connectors. For those of us who run our own services or who do not wish corporate control over such data, this works well. Contacts can similarly be synced with Evolution using dav. Kaddressbook can also sync, though it's a while since I tried this.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

flussence — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 17:56:51 +0000

SPF is fairly easy to set up - it's just one DNS TXT line to say which hosts are allowed to send mail from your domain (and can use "mx" as a convenient shorthand). I have that set up for postfix on a dynamic IP + dyndns, and it works even for sending to gmail.

DKIM, from what I've heard from colleagues, is a PITA to set up correctly so I haven't bothered yet.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

pboddie — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 11:35:33 +0000

When you write "mail server", you seem to mean "mail service", because there are obviously many Free Software mail servers in existence. If you're looking for mail services that run Free Software, there are probably quite a few, but ISPs and hosting providers (for instance) probably don't advertise their Free Software usage prominently.

There are services like Kolab Now (or whatever they're calling it these days) that do advertise their Free Software credentials, though. (Which reminds me of Roundcube Next, which was being more or less driven by Kolab Systems, but which seems to have stalled indefinitely.)

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

rahvin — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 03:00:25 +0000

I had the same issue until I deployed an iredmail server on Debian stable with auto security updates applied with unattended-upgrades in use. It's totally worth the cost for what you get with the license for the expanded management and how simple they've made management, plus it's all open source so you can mod it if you want. Using the iredmail scrips and management overlay took a task I was having difficulty keeping up to date and essentially took it off my plate.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

jkingweb — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:26:40 +0000

Strange, as this does not jive with the time stamps on the articles jwt points to above.

Regardless, though, you definitely need a "Nylas ID" and to agree to (probably?) egregious terms of service (service?! I want software!) before you can even have a glance at it. Complete non-starter for me. I guess if I compiled it myself I could make a version which doesn't require a Nylas ID, but it doesn't deserve that much effort out of me...

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

gnuman — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:43:35 +0000

Kmail is the only experience I loved, until KDE switched to another main version number...

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

gnuman — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:42:21 +0000

NO good option, of course!

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

gnuman — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:40:03 +0000

I think you are right. It is like I said... to good option at the present, sigh!

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

pboddie — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:21:29 +0000

Those are licences for JavaScript code that is presumably run in people's browsers, not the server code, at least as far as I interpret it.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

gnuman — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:23:50 +0000

After some googling it seems https://posteo.de/en is a real free software mail server.

https://posteo.de/js-licenses.html

no great choices

mathstuf — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 03:22:48 +0000

I use vdirsyncer to keep my machines up-to-date. I run my own CalDAV and CardDAV server and also sync with my phone that way. Works like a charm.

For integration with the mail client (mutt), I use khard to access the store that vdirsyncer creates.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

jkingweb — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 03:20:00 +0000

Rspam is actually fairly easy to set up and maintain. it can also handle SPF, DKIM (both ends), and DMARC policy enforcement (but not report generation or sending).

Its documentation could be better, but if I can do it... :P

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

fratti — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:30:02 +0000

Clearly they should switch to KMail.

Electron applications

jnareb — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:44:19 +0000

> Adolfo Jayme Barrientos said that he hated Electron applications for *unspecified reasons*, but suggested sylpheed.

Perhaps it was something like the reasoning in "Electron is flash for the desktop" article by josephg / Seph
https://josephg.com/blog/electron-is-flash-for-the-desktop/
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14087381&utm_term...

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

rav — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:59:49 +0000

From my brief research into the Nylas Mail codebase it seems they supported using a local sync engine until this feature was removed in the commit "fix(onboarding): Remove support for local sync engine" on Nov 23, 2016. Even though both the client and the sync client are open source, it seems they don't want you to try and self-host any of it.

GitHub link: https://github.com/nylas/nylas-mail/commit/9fbde1c3e9569c...

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

rav — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:14:32 +0000

The real issue for me is not the money for server upkeep, but the daunting task of maintaining a properly functioning spam filter.

Furthermore I haven't done my research to find out how easy SPF+DKIM+DMARC is to set up for a personal-use mail server -- but I'm imagining that would also be a challenge.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

pboddie — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:13:35 +0000

I'm guessing "offline experience" means "not done in a Web browser".

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

Tov — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:31:42 +0000

Why would you need a mail client for an offline experiene??

I prefer a clean install and then apt-get my mail client of choice...

no great choices

zblaxell — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:23:03 +0000

> CalDAV for calendars and tasks is also nice to have (but is not actually related to mail, so appriate in a separate application).

Except calendars use mail as a transport, so the mail and calendar app(s) need to know how to find each other if they aren't just two threads in the same process.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

philipstorry — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:16:56 +0000

I'm using Rainloop for webmail (https://www.rainloop.net/), which had a community edition available through the AGPL. It's not perfect, but has a very nice interface and is very low maintenance.

On Android, I'm using Aqua Mail. It was published by a one-man band, but they recently sold up to MobiSystems - who also publish OfficeSuite and a few other apps. It's continued to have updates since, which is a positive sign. As a mail client I've found it to be very good, with plenty of configuration options and it's been very stable.
I did use K-9 back in the day, and even bought the commercial version, but Aqua Mail just fitted my needs better.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

dgm — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:31:55 +0000

> I'd say that Geary is the closest to being the best fit.

Seconded. I have been using it as my principal mail client for 6 months, and it works rather well.

There are shortcomings, though, because it's just a mail client (no calendar or contacts), so I also have Evolution and Thunderbird installed to handle meeting appointments sent by mail. Of both, Thunderbird wins hands down, mainly because Evolution crashes frequently.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

DOT — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:14:39 +0000

I guess the question is really: what do you want your operating system to be? Should it be an excellent web experience like ChromeOS, or should it be a custom-designed offline experience, with a comprehensive suite of apps to suit your every need?

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

pizza — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:09:31 +0000

Mail _servers_ are still something that just about anyone can deploy -- including underlying transport (SMTP, POP/IMAP) and front-ends, where you have multiple implementations to choose from with various amounts of functionality.

Of course, running your own servers costs money on an ongoing basis, which is the real reason it's out of vogue these days.

no great choices

xav — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 08:13:57 +0000

Using GNOME Online Accounts all your desktop integrates rather smoothly with Google's servers.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

daenzer — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:28:05 +0000

In a folder which has the desired message view columns, click the small button to the right of the column headers, select "Apply columns to..." (bottom entry) -> "Folder and its children..." -> top of the folder tree you want to use the same columns for. There's also a way to change the default columns for new folders, but I forget how. :(

I don't know any similar tricks for the sort order or threading state though, which is slightly annoying when I add a new folder.

P.S. In my case, I finally gave up on Evolution after struggling with it for years.

Which email client for Ubuntu 17.10?

riteshsarraf — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:21:20 +0000

Evolution is the BEST, in what it offers today. A mature email/PIM software. Built on GTK3, makes it works very decently under Phablet Touchscreen setup in GNOME.

If one cares for his data, a Free Standalone client is needed. If one does not care, should be using Windows/Mac; they have better offerings from the proprietary world.