LWN: Comments on "GNOME 3.15.90"

GNOME 3.15.90

paulj — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 02:55:51 +0000

If I read you right, you're dismissing complaints as being from people who don't use GNOME. That's not true though, many of the complaints have been from users.

If one continually finds ways to dismiss complaints as being irrelevant, then yes, it likely will become true that the complainants are not users. This dismissive attitude to any pushback against UI changes has, I would submit to you, not been constructive for GNOME either.

GNOME 3.15.90

johannbg — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:12:42 +0000

You might want to consider upstream being reluctant to listen since Gnome has been in beta state from it's interception these things get repeated again and again.

The fact is there is no UI stability in Gnome between Gnome releases ( and never has been before or after the shell 3.x ) which is the nr 1 complaint from end users on these part of the world and why they prefer using linux mint with Cinnamon which provides them with the ui stability they seek.

In one release of Gnome you access your application this way, in another release that way ( something commonly used as calculator suddenly was stuffed under "utilities" etc ).

Configuration knobs relocated or simply removed.

Applications being inconsistent in look and feel with each other at release time.

Performance issues with shell while playing media and applications like tracker ( or tracker dumping contents of files into the journal o_O ).

Long ( session ) login time ( it takes more time to log into the Gnome desktop that it does to boot the computer to gdm thanks to things like deja-dup which requires user being done setting it up before being able to use it, being enabled in the session. I guess enable this in the session once the end user has configured it is frowned upon o_O )

The existence of extensions, which are clear signal that something is wrong or "missing" from the *DE ( as well as the survival of mate an cinnamon )

Small but *important* stuff like that lead to novice end users perceiving Gnome as things being half finish half done ( which they most certainly are and always have been with Gnome ).

After sitting through a lecture with Alexander and Lennart with Gunnar acting as a mediator trying to communicate with those designers ( yes they even had white board with drawings ) so both of those designers would get the picture, for what close to two hours before I shook my head and walkout ( and I was not the first one to walk out of that room ), it perhaps is time for the community to change it's designers for less technology challenge ones and get a less depressingly themed desktop, with more configuration options and more stable ui along with longer release cycle so Gnome can be released in a more mature and more finished state between releases, in the process, might be something worth considering, to you know silencing those criticizing voices...

GNOME 3.15.90

bronson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:44:31 +0000

It's something that I would like to rely upon again. (I hate being mostly Mac but working on deadlines requires some stability.)

And, if I may so humbly observe, the replies might indicate that it added to the discussion after all.

GNOME 3.15.90

ovitters — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 15:34:56 +0000

Hand waving and changing the topic to the one complaining is not very impressive. I'm not attacking the people, I am stating that the complaining and being negative for years about something which they do not use is not adding anything to the discussion.

GNOME 3.15.90

flussence — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 18:02:34 +0000

You're the one who chose to insult the rest of the FOSS community through implication. I repeat my question.

Notifications

bojan — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 23:46:30 +0000

Better late than never, I guess.

At least it will give me some time to mentally prepare myself for all that distraction I'll be facing in the future. I mean, an icon or something more sinister, on the top bar, just there, staring at me... Face melting... Joke, joke people. :-)

GNOME 3.15.90

luya — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:57:50 +0000

Ah, I didn't realize this was a Gnome 3 first.

That is calling interpretation of suiting your comment in your favour. The question is, why bother posting in Gnome topic where you clearly dislike Gnome Shell.

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luya — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:42:35 +0000

Why do you need to bring KDE in Gnome release topic?

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rahulsundaram — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:18:16 +0000

FWIW, I don't think you were hateful. As for the parent post, describing any one desktop environment as the only decent one is going too far since it is pretty clear that people have strong preferences about it. My hope is that we will see less of trolling about it in general however.

GNOME 3.15.90

bronson — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:06:10 +0000

Honest question: please show me any hate in my post? I intend nothing more than deep disappointment.

A little negativity can be useful if it discourages someone from making the same mistakes I did. As I said, evidence refuting my point is most welcome.

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flussence — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 16:54:14 +0000

While they're bashing GNOME, you are attacking people directly. Maybe you should be the one to stop posting.

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ovitters — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 15:47:40 +0000

Comments like that and yours add nothing. What is your intention of posting in this article? You say you're deserved to post in this, I think you're nuts. If you don't like it, cool. This appears like bull chasing something red.

GNOME 3.15.90

rriggs — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 15:35:50 +0000

It may not be useful but it is well deserved. Of course users don't really see "Gnome 3" -- all a user typically experiences is "Gnome Shell".

Gnome Shell is an abomination. Cinnamon proves Gnome 3 can actually be a usable, well thought-out and an easily navigated desktop environment.

Notifications

rahulsundaram — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 15:33:57 +0000

Apparently, that is a 3.18 target

http://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2015/02/26/in-case-you-didnt-...

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ovitters — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 09:11:36 +0000

Thanks for again posting your hate and negativity in a GNOME topic. Very useful...

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gvy — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 08:40:34 +0000

> If you want to use a tablet you really need a physical keyboard
> to go along with it to get the most out of Gnome.
A sort of a problem, eh?

GNOME 3.15.90

flussence — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 21:48:28 +0000

Why is KDE indecent, lacking distinguishing features and outmoded, according to your esteemed opinion?

Notifications

bojan — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:34:56 +0000

But, obviously, nobody reading this article knows... :-)

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bronson — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:25:37 +0000

> Now that FOSS has a least a decent desktop environment

Ah, I didn't realize this was a Gnome 3 first. How long do you suppose it will remain decent? Will they get bored and throw this one in the trash too?

(I'd love to see any evidence to the contrary. The Gnome team has been resolutely unapologetic, which implies there's a real good chance of this happening again. Glad you like Gnome 3, don't get too used to it!)

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luya — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:49:50 +0000

Gnome developers did not listen indeed. Gnome Classic session is still present and extensible for conservative users. Gnome Shell can still uses systemd components like logind. Gnome Shell further improve Wayland protocols. Gnome Software provide an easy way to manage application and adopt the appstream nomenclature for casual users.

Now that FOSS has a least a decent desktop environment representing them with distinguishing features and adapting to the modern technology, keep on hating as usual. Beside, source code and guideline are still available to writing addons for reimplementing "missing features."

GNOME 3.15.90

luya — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:34:05 +0000

Have you submitted a bug report?
For your logic, since you stop using Gnome, how do you know 3.15.90 is business as usual?
This is Linux Weekly News where bad trolling got nailed on daily basis.

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bojan — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 12:50:06 +0000

Yes, that is exactly what I meant.

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cesarb — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 10:32:11 +0000

Looking at the screenshots posted in another comment above, you have to open the calendar widget to see if there are any missed notifications.

What I believe the comment you're replying to was asking is whether is there any way to, at a glance, know whether there are missed notifications or not, without having to click on anything. A "permanent notification indicator" would for instance be a "you have new notifications" icon added to the top of the screen which only goes away after you've looked at the notifications.

Notifications

salimma — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 06:34:26 +0000

From the article, notifications are always accessible from the calendar widget.

Notifications

bojan — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 03:51:01 +0000

Anyone knows whether there is some kind of permanent notification indicator on the screen this time, after all the bubbles have been and gone?

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rodgerd — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:33:07 +0000

I need a version of the filter that auto-adds accounts which intentionally mis-spell "Windows.

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flussence — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:04:16 +0000

I'm confused, I thought GNOME was the OS X wannabe desktop and KDE was the one run by Microsoft idiots?</sarcasm>

(Of course, that joke only applies to GNOME 2 and KDE 4 - their new versions are clones of Android 3 and 5 respectively.)

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dowdle — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:00:22 +0000

~ 80% of the Linux kernel is written by paid developers. Many non-sponsored FLOSS projects are actively looking for sponsors. Why is sponsored development a bad thing? Answer, most of the time it isn't.

GNOME 3.15.90

drag — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:54:25 +0000

> (anyone remember the initial push and why desktop was broken?)

I used Gnome 3 since it was beta and while I saw lots of people accusing Gnome of abandoning the desktop for tablet I never actually saw any real evidence of it in the desktop... which what I mean is that they never were abandoning anything.

So far I can only conclude that Gnome is much better then other normal Linux DE options for a tablet, but it is still pretty bad compared to something like Android for basic usability. Caribou got a lot worse for me lately when I switched from Fedora to Arch for my 'chromebook' C720p with touchscreen. Now there doesn't seem to be any way to disable it other then replacing the caribou executable with a symlink to '/bin/true'.

The overlay stuff works pretty well, but the notifications are worthless on a touch screen.. which appears to be one of the things they are fixing.

If you want to use a tablet you really need a physical keyboard to go along with it to get the most out of Gnome.

GNOME 3.15.90

drag — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:46:41 +0000

If Gnome is run by corrupt Microsoft idiots and Red Hat corporate goons the only conclusion that I can draw is that we need a lot more Microsoft idiots and Red Hat corporate goons to participate in writing open source software.

GNOME 3.15.90

ovitters — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 16:27:46 +0000

I find the monetary value way less important than if you can see the source code and modify it. The latter usually results in the first one, but this is the most important difference with MS Windows.

GNOME 3.15.90

fb — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:17:51 +0000

> I wish it was actually run by Microsoft. Microsoft at least listens to its customers, GNOME developers do whatever they want and whoever doesn't like it is welcomed to go away, till the systemd wing force them back a few years later.

Herein lies the problem: Gnome has no customers, it has (non paying) users.

Android has customers. Gnome and KDE? Not really.

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drago01 — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:07:57 +0000

Sure but that wasn't the point.

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vonbrand — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:51:18 +0000

I prefer Gnome (even its changes and sometimes not stellar UI ideas) to the always changing to be more confusing Windows desktops myself (do read the article you link to). And while Gnome 3 didn't work here (underpowered/badly supported video card), XFCE was handy.

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GhePeU — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:24:06 +0000

I thought it was well known. This is the first article I could find in my browser history http://www.zdnet.com/pictures/the-windows-8-scrap-heap-10...

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Darkmere — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:16:23 +0000

I'm sure you are a lovely person.

Please show it.

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ovitters — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:05:43 +0000

Free software refers to freedom to modify.

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oldtomas — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:20:51 +0000

miguelde0, MuratD:

I don't know whether I'm feeding trolls. I'll take a risk and assume that there is something genuine beneath your posts.

I don't like GNOME either (nor KDE, but that's another story). Way back I was a GNOME fan.

But assuming malice in GNOME developers goes way over the top. I don't think that "Gnome is run by corrupt Microsoft idiots and Red Hat corporate goons". Red Hat is actually a very cool company, which has done a lot for free software. My laptop is running more programs financed by RedHat than I can count, fingers and toes included.

And Matthias Claasen, even being paid these days (how is that in itself a bad thing? Can *you* afford to work for free?) has begun investing his free time in GNOME before that.

How much of your free time have you invested in my well-being? Surely less than Matthias (even if my "desktop environment" of choice is Fvwm2 these days!).

I have a proposal to both of you: do something constructive. Try, for example to explore (develop?) alternatives to whatever you don't like. Blog about it, help others in the same situation as yourselves to find palatable alternatives for them.

GNOME may not be "your cup of tea" (it ain't mine, for sure), but it's not the enemy. They are writing free software, after all, so I say "thankyou"!

GNOME 3.15.90

GhePeU — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:09:41 +0000

I wish it was actually run by Microsoft. Microsoft at least listens to its customers, GNOME developers do whatever they want and whoever doesn't like it is welcomed to go away, till the systemd wing force them back a few years later.

GNOME 3.15.90

drago01 — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:20:35 +0000

1) Even if someone is employed by Red Hat to work on GNOME you are still getting it "for free" or are you paying Red Hat for the development?

2) There are developers that work on GNOME not as part of their day job.

3) Stop trolling.