LWN: Comments on "Android without the mothership"

Android without the mothership

excors — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 19:52:48 +0000

That was a widely-reported rumour a few months ago, and IMG's share price shot up, but Apple quickly said "We had some discussions with Imagination, but we do not plan to make an offer for the company at this time", and IMG's share price shot back down again. (That statement is legally binding for six months, so Apple can't immediately change their minds and announce an offer.)

Android without the mothership

mathstuf — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 13:01:03 +0000

> some hardware that's non-ideal

I read reports that Apple was looking to buy the PowerVR company. Here's to hoping it goes through and they refuse to sell it to anyone else.

Android without the mothership

tao — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 16:27:41 +0000

Yeah, I haven't really understood it either, though I guess it might make sense for tablets.

Android without the mothership

flussence — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 16:19:09 +0000

I wonder if the OP has been living in a cave since the article they're replying to was originally published... stock Android is capable of doing all the things listed. I don't see the point of having multiple users on my phone but it's certainly there.

Android without the mothership

tao — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 11:49:29 +0000

Fascinating. I don't find (recent versions of) Android awkward to use, and while there are indeed plenty of crappy apps, there are also plenty of excellent ones -- and those are the ones I tend to install, just like I only install good software on my Debian machines. There are plenty of apps I use on my Android phone that (sadly) have no -- good -- counterpart for GNU/Linux.

I guess the closest device to what you're asking for would be that old Sony Vaio where the display was roughly the size of the keyboard and the device weighed something like 500g. They don't make it any more though; it was extremely expensive, and the market was probably small (plus it sadly suffered from some hardware that's non-ideal).

FWIW having a full-HD screen for something like a portfolio would yield pixels that are extremely wide...

Android without the mothership

Sloyment — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 22:04:16 +0000

I don’t see the point in Android. It is an awkward to use, single-user system, to run creepy, crappy, proprietary apps on it. I did not discover any useful feature in Android, yet.

I would like to have a handheld device with a real keyboard, HDMI out, USB connectors, Ethernet connector etc. that runs Debian GNU/Linux from an open boot loader. Imagine something like an Atari Portfolio, but with a modern, powerful processor and a full HD touch screen.

Android without the mothership

MShekow — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:34:29 +0000

There are many good clues in this article! I've been working on how to remove Google from my Android device for a few months now as well. I've summarized my findings on my website (click here to get to the article), in case you want to find out more!

Android without the mothership

Tuxicoman — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 17:41:55 +0000

You can also use GooglePlayDownloader.

It's fully open source and in Python. So you can ensure you get the APK straight from Google servers without malwares a third party could inject in.

I coded the graphical interface and packaging of this software.

The Missing Maps Application

blujay — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:55:13 +0000

That's good to know, thanks. I'm guessing it will be much harder on battery life running in a browser, though.

Android without the mothership

garyamort — Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:25:37 +0000

Thanks for a good overview on Android avoiding Google lock-in.

While I often am not nearly as concerned as many about the GNU definition of open source, I think it is very important for there to be the option to avoid all these vendor specific lock ins.

Even if few people actually opt out, as long as the ability is there it helps to make sure companies don't go too far in their data mining.

BTW another option is Firefox OS, which is also based on android with the primary difference being replacing the android desktop with a lighter html5 based desktop.... not as feature rich as android, but for many people more then sufficient.

Android without the mothership

tomgj — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:40:47 +0000

I'm not sure I understand "Given that the number of users who go out of their way to install restricted versions of Android must be quite small".

What is being restricted and where here?

My experience

nye — Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:41:10 +0000

>why does one _need_ all those specialized apps, if the services are usually available as web sites as well?

You mean like e-mail, feed readers, text editors, IDEs, word processors, image editors, games, etc?

Basically every application category has a web equivalent - why does one need any application other than a browser at all?

Android without the mothership

Rondom — Tue, 01 Jul 2014 12:05:52 +0000

I suggest using heimdall instead of Odin in that case.
http://glassechidna.com.au/heimdall/

As far as I know Odin is a Samsung-internal software that was leaked. Thus, there is no official website.

Android without the mothership

spaetz — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 16:43:56 +0000

Osmand has "roads only" maps which are really small (in comparison). Combined with the world base map (working at zoom 10 and lower), these work really well. I often deactivate all my "normal" maps in order to get faster routing.

Android without the mothership

mathstuf — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:38:00 +0000

I'd like to be able to download data given a center point and a radius. Downloading an entire state's data does not make sense when I'm going 45 minutes into it.

For the calendar syncing, I use a DaviCAL install on my server and sync using that (also does CardDAV for contacts).

Android without the mothership

khim — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:33:40 +0000

CyanogenMod is not about leaving Google mothership. If you'll read the whole story you'll find out that CyanogenMod does not roll in Google's apps into the default install because Google wanted it that way.

Basically CyanogenMod community acts as any other closed-system modders community. I'm not sure why are surprised, really. XBox360 or Wii mods could also be downloaded from various scary sites, often are shipped without accompanying source code and so on.

Android without the mothership

l0b0 — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:18:49 +0000

After using CyanogenMod for some weeks, it seems the community has a completely broken security model. I don't know how many times I found random forum articles telling random strangers to go to even more random third party web sites (or DropBox!) to get binaries to put on their devices. What. The. Eff? Surely anyone who is afraid that Google will use their data for some nefarious purpose should be *infinitely* more worried about `http://random.com/~random/random.bin`?

The last straw was trying to find a *reference* web site for Odin, and ending up getting an antivirus warning when downloading from the top Google result. Downloading the same version from the "official" forum post did not result in such a warning.

Android without the mothership

Supernode — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 07:56:41 +0000

I use this constellation for two month now and it is working well. But I have a few small issues still.
1) I want to sync my calendar with Thunderbird. Has anyone a working example on how to achieve that?
2) OSMAnd has lots of detail but is pretty slow. I think they would need some kind of "light" version and add details by demand.

Android without the mothership

whyagaintang — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:37:28 +0000

absolutely true. please see this from someone having own email server for > 10 years http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-...

What's the point?

whyagaintang — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:31:09 +0000

Not an expert but what does this article in arstechnica mean? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/switzerland-wo...

quote:
Switzerland, like nearly all of its European neighbors, has a de facto gag order on user notification. Meaning that if I have my e-mail at Swiss Company X and I’m being investigated, there’s essentially no chance that I will find out about such surveillance until after the investigation is complete

The Missing Maps Application

wrd — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:10:17 +0000

maps.here.com (from nokia/microsoft) works splendid in the browser (tested with firefox). It is almost as good as the maps application, and most definitely better than OSMand.

My experience

MKesper — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 11:19:47 +0000

For many places (US not (yet) included), you can use liberario now: https://github.com/grote/Liberario?files=1

Android without the mothership

MKesper — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:22:47 +0000

Sadly, osmand seems not to be easily compilable for F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/forums/search/osmand/
As newer maps aren't compatible with the f-droid version anymore, at this time I use the f-droid version for downloading maps only. :(

Android without the mothership

xxiao — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:31:37 +0000

This is a great article. Android can be used on non-phone/non-tablets and for those scenarios, google service is definitely not needed and could also hold back similar products in that space.

Android without the mothership

oska — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 04:28:59 +0000

Discussion on Hacker News.

Android without the mothership

accumulator — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:46:15 +0000

Interesting.. After years of divergence we enter into an era of convergence again. Linux Desktop as the "iron" and Android as the VM/Container

What's the point?

anselm — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 13:44:27 +0000

In the US case, we have the FISC, whose job it is to provide judicial oversight of the government's data collection programmes. That makes the access justifiable (from the government's POV, anyway).

Of course, whether a secret court that rubberstamps virtually every request it receives, no matter how sweeping, is actually worth being considered »judicial oversight« by people not affiliated with the government is another matter entirely …

What's the point?

mathstuf — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 13:26:59 +0000

Well, in that case, there is judicial oversight which makes the access justifiable. In the US case, access is requested "just in case" with little to no judicial oversight.

What's the point?

anselm — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 10:32:29 +0000

The Kolab CEO goes to jail under Swiss law if he shares any of his customers' data with anybody, within, or outside of Switzerland, governments or private parties.

Won't the Kolab CEO go to jail under Swiss law if a Swiss judge orders them to turn over customer data as evidence in a trial, and they don't comply?

What's the point?

jospoortvliet — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 10:17:23 +0000

The Google CEO goes to jail under US law if he fails to deliver his customers' data to the government or exploit their data properly to the shareholders' benefit.

The Kolab CEO goes to jail under Swiss law if he shares any of his customers' data with anybody, within, or outside of Switzerland, governments or private parties.

What do you prefer as location of your data?

My experience

khim — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 15:12:59 +0000

With the context now hopefully more clearly defined, I can only echo the original question: why does one _need_ all those specialized apps, if the services are usually available as web sites as well?

Because UI designed for a desktop is usually hard to use on a smartphone. And when companies are faced with a dilemma: to create a mobile web site or to create an app they often create an app—because it's simpler. Apple initialy favired mobile web, but quickly found out that it's just does not work.

Mozilla tries to make creationg of a mobile web sites as easy as creation of a mobile apps but gap still is stricking.

Android without the mothership

clump — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 14:30:38 +0000

In the end i'm back to preferring a laptop just for the comfort of a real keyboard and a true flexible Linux system.

I agree completely. I do pretty much as our editor has done in this article, though I'm sure we all agree we're in the minority.

I've found a Haswell-based Chromebook running Fedora to be extremely useful and portable. While not nearly as convenient as a phone, it allows me to easily plug in other devices, has a good keyboard, and provides great battery life.

My experience

mathstuf — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 13:11:21 +0000

One thing I wish did exist was "how much will I need this weekend on my transit pass?" Factoring in transfer rates and zones (e.g., Seattle) is non trivial :( . Montreal got it right and have unlimited passes for a weekend (though the price is steeper, I have zero worry about being stranded with 25¢ short).

My experience

dvdeug — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 12:07:26 +0000

Why does one need anything? They work better then fighting with a webpage on the Android browser.

(I did not mention bus schedules. I mentioned the computation of finding the optimal set of bus routes and times to get from one place to another, a frequently very different problem.)

My experience

niner — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 10:41:37 +0000

I understood the question to be about why do people need those specialized apps (e.g. for bus schedules): "Out of curiousity, how are any of those applications worthwhile?". That the original poster does not have a smart phone was just the reason for his ignorance about possible advantages. The question has also to be seen in the context of using Android smart phones without Google apps/accounts and thus without a large part of the choice of apps.

With the context now hopefully more clearly defined, I can only echo the original question: why does one _need_ all those specialized apps, if the services are usually available as web sites as well?

My experience

dvdeug — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 10:35:15 +0000

That implies I have a smartphone, and the question was why do people have smartphones. If you find that the bus company site is as easy to use as Google Maps, including accessing your current position, go for it.

My experience

niner — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 10:03:51 +0000

But why not use your _phone_ to access the bus company's web site? After all mobile web is one of the main uses of smartphones.

My experience

dvdeug — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 09:58:10 +0000

If I went out to dinner with friends, I'm not going to have my computer with me, and even if I did, I would have had to have paid for a mobile Internet connection for my laptop. There's no way a computer that weighs a few ounces and doubles as a cell phone doesn't beat a laptop that weighs five pounds and has to have its own mobile connection separate from my phone in these circumstances.

My experience

niner — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 09:38:47 +0000

But can't you just use the web site for these?

Android without the mothership

zack — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 08:59:45 +0000

> The one I was affected by is that you can only download 10 countries with the gratis official version.

FWIW, that specific anti-feature is trivial to work around by installing maps via USB connection to the phone. I've some scripts that makes it easy doing that here http://git.upsilon.cc/?p=utils/osmand-install-map.git;a=tree