LWN: Comments on "ALS: Automotive Grade Linux"

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

alison — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 06:37:36 +0000

The easiest solution is obdgpslogger, which has Debian and Ubuntu and (probably still) Fedora packages:

I also recommend having a look at mp3car.com forums, scantool.net forums, #linuxice IRC on freenode and (until elinux.org page Nate mentions exists):

http://wiki.openivi.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://mikesshop.net/

There were working Ubuntu and Debian packages for nobdy and libobd before the maintainer fell far behind, but I hear she hopes to catch up over Thanksgiving.

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

alison — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 06:26:28 +0000

My car has MS-CAN, HS-CAN and OBDII. I can read all three from the OBDII port:

http://she-devel.com/Mazda3_Controller_Area_Network_Exper...

My vehicle dates to 2005, so newer cars likely do have better security, although the kind of inter-bus communication I report is observed in many newer models as well.

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

miahfost — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:48:38 +0000

I think this will go somewhere. In fact, GENIVI is busy specifying the web APIs to the vehicle and they are in regular communication with W3C who are also getting into the act. I think this is one standard that might actually get followed.

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

miahfost — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:46:46 +0000

Just a few notes on navit;

- GENIVI created a proof of concept using navit and standardized GENIVI APIs, so yes, navit should work "out of the box" on a GENIVI based IVI system.
- Navigation is one of those differentiating areas, and it is hard to do well (ask Apple.)

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

n8willis — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:22:55 +0000

I'm afraid there aren't a whole heck of a lot of them out there. Alison is certainly more knowledgeable on the subject than I, however.

David Anders has also started a resource section on the elinux.org wiki that lists a few packages worth exploring. It is a post-ALS creation, though, so it may take time before contributors manage to link in all the extant options, many of which are one-developer projects at this stage.

Nate

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

daglwn — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:38:28 +0000

Things like ECU monitors and the like, mostly. Also things like news/information clients, weather apps, etc.

I assume that one would have to do some custom work to integrate navit or monav (or any application) into this IVI system. As I understand it, these packages basically act as a compositor. Code providing the actual information and interfaces exists as separate applications. I was hoping some of those applications written with these base libraries in mind might be available as Free Software.

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

pabs — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:34:09 +0000

Navigation stuff, you probably want navit or monav. What other stuff are you looking for?

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

liam — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 04:47:53 +0000

Although I hope this goes somewhere, I fear this will be one of the few times we hear about it.
Each of the big automotive companies, and even some of the smaller ones like Mazda or Hyundai, seem to want their own systems. The results are, in my experience, universally terrible.
If they would at least offer an option for a standardized in-dash docking mechanism we could slap in a tablet and let it communicate with the rest of the system (but only control non-safety critical systems like IVI, climate control, or whatever) through a webview, or whatever Afloat/Genocide/whoever else decides upon.
Just give me my massive, bright, multi-touch friendly screen sitting in the dash which I can fondle at my leisure.

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

Cyberax — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 19:59:38 +0000

AFAIR, CAN actually has a feature called 'dominant bits' which can _physically_ override the current transmission for really time-critical data.

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

daglwn — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 19:48:08 +0000

Excellent! I'm building my own "carputer." I was planning to use MythTV as a frontend with some custom scripts for integrating navigation, etc. With these foundational packages entering Debian, do you know of any Free client-side code a homebrew enthusiast might be able to take advantage of?

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

dmk — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:43:53 +0000

Well, at least in cars of one big manufacturer there are more than 2 CAN Busses...

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

alison — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:39:19 +0000

Check out autosec.org and read the (refereed academic) papers there about how the alleged firewalling between CAN subnets is largely unimplemented. In my own vehicle using the scantool.net STN1110 OBDLink MX, I can listen to ECUs on several subnets. CAN (actually controller area network) has very little security, and GENIVI has a Networking Expert Group and a Security Team that are laboring to create new standards to address the situation.

As someone who has participated in GENIVI, I am excited about the new AGL and look forward to learning more. I am delighted that the previously quiet Toyota is stepping up to provide leadership alongside Samsung and Intel with Tizen. Linux is winning big in automotive, which will be an increasingly vital arena as autonomous vehicles become inevitable. California has made self-driving cars legal within the week, so we shouldn't squabble, but roll up our sleeves and get to the work.

The article is yet more great coverage of Linux IVI by Nate Willis and Michael Kerrisk. Thank you LWN!

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

giggls — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 14:57:17 +0000

Given a suitable Layer2 IPv6 will be able to provide Realtime capabilities better than those of CAN. Which is capable of realtime communication only if all stations behave well.

Sven

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

pabs — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 04:45:27 +0000

Here are some Debian related automotive things:

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianAutomotive
http://bugs.debian.org/688629
http://bugs.debian.org/688627
http://bugs.debian.org/688586
http://bugs.debian.org/568303
http://bugs.debian.org/486470
http://bugs.debian.org/505551

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

smurf — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 04:24:07 +0000

This is why cars typically have two CAN busses. One for the safety critical low level stuff, and one for the bells and whistles.
The bells and whistles should be replace-able with TCP/IP very easily.
The low-level stuff, not so much, obviously.

ALS: Automotive Grade Linux

aleXXX — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:01:33 +0000

"Of course, CAN bus may be on its way out; the protocol offers no security and certainly lacks the flexibility of standard TCP/IP."
...but it comes with timing guarantees, which you probably want to have when things like the braking system etc. use it for communication.

Alex