LWN: Comments on "KDE 4.6 released"

KDE 4.6 released

callegar — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:51:16 +0000

Too bad that the "feature parity" with kde 3.5 for the print applet (that was on the planned features list) has been missed again.

What I would like most is the applet to remember duplexing options between invocations.

Second desire would be a "print applet" made available as an application as it was for kde 3.5 so that older X applications that can only produce postscript and require a print command to be configured for printing could be configured to use kdeprint rather than lpr and automatically gain the ability to control duplexing, color, resolution, etc.

I truly hope that a point release (4.6.1) can fix this.

[At this point it looks like I have just complained in the last 3 messages, so it's time for me to give some compliment to the release too!]

KDE 4.6 released

callegar — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:45:01 +0000

The new solid framework seems a bit immature to me. I have many issues with it:

1) For audio CDs, I do not get anymore the proper actions in the device notifier.

2) Amarok cannot see audio CDs anymore

3) For data CDs, if /media/cdrom0 is not created beforehand, solid fails to mount the CDs at all.

4) CDs with a label are not mounted by label in a consistent way with USB pens. For instance if I have a CD with a filesystem labeled "FOO", I would like it to be mounted in /media/FOO, not in /media/cdrom0, similarly to what happens with USB data sticks.

KDE 4.6 released

callegar — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:40:54 +0000

I have the following usage case:

I have a laptop. When I am out of office, I use it with its own screen, keyboard and touchpad. When I am in office, I use it with an external larger monitor, an external bigger keyboard and a mouse. With randr it is easy to switch on the external monitor and off the laptop screen.

Unfortunately the monitor resolution is different from the laptop screen resolution (1920x1200 the laptop, 1680x1050 the large monitor).

I have the following issues (unfortunately some of them have worsened with kde 4.6)

1) When the panel migrates from the laptop screen to the external monitor it remains too large, so I need to reconfigure it.

2) When the panel migrates from the laptop screen to the external monitor, those plasmoids close to the right border of the screen are moved left to be kept inside the smaller screen. When I go back to the laptop screen, objects are left in the middle of the screen. Think of the trashcan that is usually on the right bottom corner and gets in the middle of the screen.

With kde 4.5.5 I was able to solve 2 with activities (possibly abusing them a little). I had a "Monitor" and a "Laptop-Display" activities, each with the plasmoid placed in the right place for the output display resolution. Since in 4.5 plasmoids were not automatically moved around this assured that I could always have my plasmoids in the right place. With kde 4.6 this is not possible anymore.

I would be very happy if kde developers could consider my usage case. Most people I know do the same as I do, liking the possibility to have a laptop, but also the luxury of working with a larger monitor whenever possible.

Maybe an idea would be to introduce the idea of an anchor for positioning objects. Namely, after having positioned the trashcan, I would be able to say that the position should be anchored to the bottom right corner of the screen, so that whatever the resolution of the screen, the trashcan is always placed at the right distance from the right and the bottom screen edges.

KDE 4.6 released

modernjazz — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:20:42 +0000

Gnome is not free of troubles in this department. See this comparison of Ubuntu and Kubuntu:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-vi...

I think the underlying problem, as usual, is X. Getting better, but still a ways to go.

KDE 4.6 released

foom — Tue, 01 Feb 2011 00:03:41 +0000

Yikes, good point on the possibility for confusion here. You can of course have either a) multiple X servers, b) one X server with multiple X screens, or c) one X server with one X screen with multiple monitors.

Most everyone has long ago switched to the last alternative, since it actually lets you move windows between monitors and fancy things like that. So I thought everyone on this thread was talking about that...

But who knows! I know one person who likes to use multiple-X-screens-on-one-X-server, because fvwm doesn't use XRandR hints to layout windows correctly or something like that, and he's always complaining about how someone has broken that functionality in the X server or driver for the 20th time in a row. And if there's anyone else running a setup like that, I'm sure they'd frequent this website. :)

KDE 4.6 released

dlang — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:59:09 +0000

I think that in all the complaints listed, just replace 'multihead' with 'multiscreen'

so it's not safe to say that multiscreen works just fine.

KDE 4.6 released

jospoortvliet — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:52:57 +0000

problem is that we're talking about a niche issue here. Multihead is something very few people run - multiscreen on the other hand is used plenty (and works just fine). The developers simply can't fix every minority issue - they have to focus on big things. And keep fun in mind too, otherwise, why work on this in the first place?

So aseigo could of course tell ppl he won't accept new features but wants them to work on fixing every darn issue they don't personally care about - KDE would quickly wither and die.

So for the long term, KDE has to make sure it's products are good enough - and at the same time, keep working in and on KDE fun. It is a delicate balance and usually minor features and issues are the victim of it.

That's why it is good to have some corporate funding - they often pay for the boring, finishing touch ;-)

KDE 4.6 released

jospoortvliet — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:47:35 +0000

see below in this thread, multi-head is different from multi-screen. Multi-screen works just fine, I use it any time I attach a projector to my laptop :D

Multi-head is not used a lot, there are few use cases for it. It's not a complete obscure use case either but still the demand for it is so low nobody is capable or willing to step up and fix it. You can blame either developers or users for that - I guess you should keep in mind that there are simply more pressing matters. Most developers have about 100 times more things they'd like to do and fix than time on their hands :D

KDE 4.6 released

aseigo — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:35:33 +0000

"the taskbar doesn't show up because it's configured to be on screen 2."

that should be fixed in 4.6 where such panels automigrate to an existing screen if there is no panel already there.

"The fact that screen 2 doesn't exist makes no difference to how KDE decides to layout the widgets."

primarily because there is no established "correct behavior": should all the desktop widgets be migrated to screen 0? well, that would likely mess up the widgets that are there.

the other gotcha is that plasma-desktop relies on the xserver to consistently number the screens in a sensible fashion. during screen changes such as the one you describe, it often doesn't. whichever way we chose to interpret those numbers, it'll be the "wrong" behaviour on some number of machines. :/

KDE 4.6 released

aseigo — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:31:50 +0000

don't confuse multihead and multiscreen. multihead is running more than one x server, usually one per physical screen. multiscreen is running one xserver but having multiple physical screens.

multiscreen is widely used and cared for and works rather well. multihead is not. you can go back to kde3 or even kde2 and see this was the case even then.

i did fix a number of multihead issues for Plasma Desktop 4.6, however, and it is generally working. kwin needs some fixes, still, though. (patches welcome.) it is generally working now, though there are a couple of remaining known issues (like how user visible strings in plasma-desktop are not translated on screens other than the first one .. though i just fixed that one too :)

KDE 4.6 released

dlang — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:41:01 +0000

so if the problem is the lack of funding for KDE, they should have some way for people to donate to the project.

the amount of money we are talking about to equip some of the developers with a second monitor to be able to replicate a very common user environment (laptop with an external screen) is very small

KDE 4.6 released

anselm — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:24:45 +0000

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the KDE developers need to decide whether they want to produce a dependable desktop environment where users can rely on bugs or regressions being addressed (in which case some developers will eventually have to condescend to working on the unpopular tasks, too) or whether they want to provide a free-for-all for hobbyist developers (in which case every developer gets to do what they please), with users being allowed to tag along for the ride as long as they don't make themselves too obnoxious. In other words, is the KDE project's primary goal providing entertainment for its developers or a service for its users?

Summarily dissing people with legitimate claims about bugs in KDE as »whiners« who do not contribute is a cheap shot. KDE is a large and complicated body of code and it is not as if someone could, just like so, pull down the source and fix a few bugs that even the KDE developers themselves seem to be either afraid or else incapable of addressing. Also, for all you know, those »whiners« may be contributing to the FLOSS community at large in untold other ways.

KDE 4.6 released

halla — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:22:31 +0000

This sort of comment makes me so sad... Behaving like you really don't know how volunteer-based open source projects work. You do know, I hope, that nobody is paid to work on kwin? That nobody is paid to work on plasma? That among the couple of hundred KDE developers only one or two work on kwin? It's not a company where you can redirect resources to please those users who don't pay, don't contribute, who do nothing but whine, every release.

I suppose that this kind of smart-ass comment makes you feel good about yourself, superior to those stupid KDE hackers, whatever. You're smart enough to use Gnome, after all. Good for you!

But you'd better get the sourcecode from git, use your super-duper setup and fix that bug and join the project. That will earn you real respect and will make you feel really good about yourself for real.

As for presentation mode -- that hasn't been a problem with KDE 4 for a long time now. krandrtray makes that work plenty fine. It's just some weird multi-head setups that seem to cause problems. And nobody who complains every release about those problems, nobody ever actually steps up to help.

That is not what open source is about. Scratch your itch, dammit.

KDE 4.6 released

thoffman — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:35:22 +0000

None of the KDE developers has multi-head? Seriously?

Anyone with a non-antique laptop and a spare monitor has multi-head if they want it. This is not rocket science.

And it's very important to get right, not just for multi-head day to day use, but plug-and-play. Presentation mode in conferences is crucial. I need to to just plug in to a random projector and display, without having to restart the X Server or mess around with configuration panels.

Fortunately, this is pretty solid now on my Lenovo running Ubuntu & Gnome.

KDE 4.6 released

jackb — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:05:34 +0000

I'd just be happy if all the widgets would show up.

On my primary machine most of my work is done on screen 2 due to the peculiarities of how the graphics card numbers the output ports. When I try to use the same profile on a machine that only has one screen the taskbar doesn't show up because it's configured to be on screen 2. The fact that screen 2 doesn't exist makes no difference to how KDE decides to layout the widgets.

I imagine the same thing would happen if you were working multiheaded and removed a monitor for some reason. If you didn't remember to move everything around beforehand you'd be out of luck.

KDE 4.6 released

anselm — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:06:04 +0000

Most desktop graphics cards today have more than one output connector. Pretty much any laptop lets you connect an external monitor in addition to the LCD panel.

You're seriously trying to tell us that the apparent multi-head issues are so supremely uninteresting to KDE developers that no one can be bothered to hook up a spare monitor to their graphics card – even for ten minutes – to see whether there is anything to those reports?

KDE 4.6 released

nix — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:11:51 +0000

Yeah, well, nobody seems to care about shared NFS homes anymore. I still don't know how to get all this semantic search stuff working if your $HOME is NFS-shared...

KDE 4.6 released

jackb — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 00:45:07 +0000

For even more fun try using the same .kde directory on two different machines (shared NFS home directory) where one machine has two monitors and the other one only has a single monitor.

KDE 4.6 released

jospoortvliet — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:24:31 +0000

Unfortunately, as has been blogged about a few times by Aaron, none of the KDE developers has a multi-head setup and with the exception of one person (who's issues got fixed) nobody has stepped up to help test and resolve the problems.

Which means Plasma 4.7 will suffer from the same issues. And so will 4.8. Until someone decides he/she is willing to help test bugfixes. The developers are more than willing but there's nothing they can do without either a tester or a crystal ball.

KDE 4.6 released

dlang — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:29:18 +0000

I run KDE multihead (on ubuntu) and I have a couple problems to add to the list

every time I reboot it looses the monitor configuration

I can't seem to control which monitor the panel appears on

but as to your issues, remember that for the software, you just have one large monitor, so apps like Opera and Thunderbird are trying to put their popups in places that aren't going to interfere with other activity, that frequently means that it ends up on another monitor.

KDE 4.6 released

alecs1 — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:23:09 +0000

Yup, that has been fixed, it's time for another bug which affects multi-head setups:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248828

Well, a few minutes of using multi-head will uncover a big bunch of inconsistencies and problems, annoyances for a technical user, possible problems for everyone else,
ex. Xorg: why can the cursor go to areas are not drawn?!
ex. driver: radeon cannot display a half o the cursor on a screen and another on the other when it is at the edget between the screens.
ex. KDE settings: krandrtray may or may not apply the settings it has just accepted.
ex. apps: Opera and Thunderbird have the strangest ways of choosing were to place their pop-ups and menus.

KDE 4.6 released

xorbe — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 04:31:48 +0000

Thanks everyone, I shall update to 4.6 some time and have another go at it!

KDE 4.6 released

cowsandmilk — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:01:40 +0000

Like peter-b, I use wallpaper on a two-LCD panel on KDE 4.5 every day. Can you point to a bug report where this is described?

KDE 4.6 released

peter-b — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:22:47 +0000

I use a two-LCD-panel KDE desktop every day, with no wallpaper problems. *shrug*

KDE 4.6 released

sebas — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:39:27 +0000

Yes and yes.

And both for quite some time, IIRC. Maybe time to give it another try if it wasn't up to your tasks last time you tried. It's progressing pretty quickly.

KDE 4.6 released

xorbe — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 02:06:43 +0000

matt said:
> The beauty of Plasma is that you can mix and match
> the various plasmoids, containments, data engines, etc

And yet, it can't manage to load up the wallpaper correctly after first login on a two-LCD setup. Can it drag the trashcan between screens yet like KDE3?