LWN: Comments on "How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone"

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

Pinin — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:17:21 +0000

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I just can't help to answer this ... YES !
Yes you can brick your ADP1 so badly, but there is a way to recover though.
And I know because I have been there.
I recovered by flashing a DREAIMG.nbh for a comercial T-Mobile G1 and then I had to use the corresponding trick to root the phone, update the SPL again and so on. If anybody knows a better way to solve the problem, I wouldn't mind to know, my ADP is in big danger of having trouble again.

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

muwlgr — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:08:44 +0000

Just have a look at

http://www.macworld.com/article/139045/2009/02/google_g1....

"People who bought an unlocked version of the Android G1 phone are no longer allowed to download new paid applications from the Market, after a change Google made late last week."

And so on.

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

man_ls — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 07:25:37 +0000

Thanks. In a sense this new meaning describes our editor's fears perfectly.

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

giraffedata — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:01:57 +0000

So you can update the SPL? Does that mean you can brick the machine beyond recovery by any means mentioned in the article by doing that poorly?

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

mbg — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:38:03 +0000

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/root#Verb

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

man_ls — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:07:59 +0000

Careful, there. "Root" (as a verb) takes on a whole different meaning in various non-American English-speaking cultures.

Such as? They don't come up in wordreference. At least not as a transitive verb ("root something", as opposed to "root somewhere" or "root for someone").

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

hanwen — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:20:02 +0000

go to http://www.android.com/market/ , sign up as developer (US$ 25), and order the phone ($ 400 ex shipping and tax).

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

appie — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:10:44 +0000

Now if only we could get rid of the difference between data and data, oh sorry, "voice" and "data" we could happily start using SIP and enjoy all the technical merits it would bring us instead of the convoluted schemes the operators are dreaming up to be able to force us into Their Way.
But that will only happen at gun point I'm afraid :(

Openmoko already kind of there

madhatter — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:50:29 +0000

i know "me too"s are by definition grim, but as another person happily using an openmoko as his daily phone, i'm a bit sad reading this excellent analysis of all the problems that freely using the android presents while thinking "we've solved that... we've solved that... we've solved that" about the 'moko:

> the decidedly non-free Android SDK ... contains [the] (adb) tool, which
> is essential for working with the phone over a USB connection. With adb,
> one can connect to a shell running on the phone
ssh
> move files back and forth
scp / rsync over ssh
> forward network ports to and from the phone
iptables

> The idea of turning this nice device into an expensive brick lacks appeal
two boot firmwares, one writeable and one not, so the latter can always be used to rescue the freerunner from bad overwrite of the former (does *not* apply to neo 1973).

backups? dfu-util and/or mkfs.jffs2

> Of course, said "manual" is a single slip of paper
the openmoko wiki is a bit chaotic, but there's a lot of stuff in it. more by the day, i find.

> The ADP1 can report its orientation to an application, but almost no
> applications make use of that information.
openmookow (really!), and many others

i'm *glad* there are more and more free GSM devices; many is good. a plurality of free OSes and dev environments is good. but it makes me a little sad that so much enthusiasm is being put into this platform which doesn't seem to be designed primarily for freedom, when there are designed-free platforms that could do with being better still.

doubtless there are good things about the G1. but it's not a great product merely because google made it and apple didn't.

(disclaimer: i have no commercial connection with any part of openmoko except that i bought two full-price phones from a distributor.)

What is not free in Adroid stack?

khim — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:19:38 +0000

I am not really interested in a phone that is hackable but by default only really usable with partially non-free software stack, so therefore (as an user) I am interested in the development of completely free software stacks.

AFAIK the only non-free parts in Android software stack are codecs - and these are not free by patent reason. Other non-free parts (like GMail client or YouTube client) are completely optional. And it's way easier to replace codecs with free ones (where legal) than to create the whole new stack. And if you'll compare number of phones with Android today with all other phones with "free software stacks"...

Usage of G1 without Android is certainly possible but unfeasible...

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

fb — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:33:34 +0000

I have seen the numbers for The Netherlands, and it was close to 450euros.

IIRC Google will include the import taxes in your price.

People have been able to turn T-Mobile branded phones into a Dev phone, but it probably involves taking lots of risks. But that only works with 'root access', and this hasn't yet been achieved for European G1's.

Great article!

ftclausen — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:54:41 +0000

Hello,

I totally agree that attaining the freedom to run what we want on our phone is important. And, as tajyrink pointed out, Android and the ADP1 have some "freedom issues" (for lack of a better way of putting it) I think it is still a good starting point.

I myself use an OpenMoko Neo Freerunner running QTextended. This is working reasonable well as a daily phone (since my last one is being used by my girlfriend after her phone broke) but once the Openmoko FSO based images are stable then I will give them a try. Also, the Openmoko Wiki is a great resource.

I also ran Android on my Neo but I could not answer calls since Android assumed the presence of a physical button - which was not there. However, I will try Android again once the Neo version has matured a bit more.

All in all the fact that we can SSH into our phones is already a major milestone.

Happy adventuring!

Some way still to be able to use the freedoms...

tajyrink — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:39:47 +0000

I might be wrong, but coming from the Openmoko land, I feel like the author is only in the very beginning of realizing how to use a free phone :) Why installing Debian is "crazy"? Debian is the universal operating system, as is said, and Debian can be used for phone functionality without a hitch currently on Openmoko. Freesmartphone.org is generating a basis of phone/PIM functionality that can be built upon by any distribution. The fact that there are missing parts on Android phones currently when using non-Android software does not mean replacing Android would be crazy in the long run.

I do hope Android phones would soon get their phone functionality usage and power management generalized to the level that people could actually start exercising their freedoms. I also hope the author could shed a light on any developments on these fronts:

- Is someone trying to reproduce the current Android software power management system in a more general (and simple) way? Suspend working while GSM is on, what's the battery life when using eg. Debian?
- Are all the kernel patches / drivers going to the mainline kernel?
- Is there anything stirring to implement ADP1 support in http://freesmartphone.org/ ?
- Can you currently make phone calls when using non-Android software somehow? Any UIs yet?

I am not really interested in a phone that is hackable but by default only really usable with partially non-free software stack, so therefore (as an user) I am interested in the development of completely free software stacks. Also even though there may be a free Android distribution, I'd rather go for a more general one that doesn't need recoding all the software. Ie. GTK, Qt support would be nice.

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

corvus — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:11:51 +0000

It's not necessary to reflash the bootloader to use a new system image, and, as you suggest, not a good idea. None of the partitions mentioned in the article contain the bootloader, including the potentially confusingly named "boot" partition. Instead it contains what the bootloader (or SPL -- second program loader) boots.

If your phone already has a fastboot compatible SPL (the ADP1 mentioned in the article does), there is no need to change the bootloader, and you can flash newly-built system images, or backups of your old images at will without (much) fear of bricking your phone. When I want to try a new image I've built, I use nandroid to back up my phone in its current state, then fastboot to flash the image, and if it's unsatisfactory, use fastboot to flash by nandroid backups back.

Typically, part of the process of liberating a G1 is to replace the SPL with a fastboot-enabled version.

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

pr1268 — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:39:35 +0000

With any luck at all, awareness of the value of this freedom will spread over time, and vendors will find that their customers will settle for nothing less.

The whole concept of open hardware/software in the mobile arena seems quite new. Let's hope that this is a winning design from a hardware, software, and legal perspective.

...but you will need to root the phone first.

Careful, there. "Root" (as a verb) takes on a whole different meaning in various non-American English-speaking cultures.

The idea of turning this nice device into an expensive brick lacks appeal.

I nominate the above for The Subdued Yet Profound Statement of the year Award. ;)

I'm done being silly, now. Many thanks to our editor for his research, findings, and commentary. Must be fun to play with such a nifty toy!

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

i3839 — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:29:46 +0000

04380000 is the partition size, not its address.

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

TxtEdMacs — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:15:40 +0000

Perhaps a dumb question, why do two of the partitions have the same address?

mtd3: 04380000 00020000 "system"
mtd4: 04380000 00020000 "cache"

Which does not seem to be a typo, since that's exactly what is shown in the referenced link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443994

What am I missing?

Nonfree SDK?

teferi — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:05:29 +0000

The stuff in http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/development.git;... sure seems to be Apache-licensed. Hmm.

Nonfree SDK?

corbet — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:51:41 +0000

Here's the SDK terms and conditions. I wouldn't call them DFSG-compliant...

Nonfree SDK?

teferi — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:42:53 +0000

IIRC, the SDK isn't actually nonfree - it should be possible to build it from the Android source tree.

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

Thue — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:11:41 +0000

Do anyone know how to go about buying an unlocked android phone in Denmark, and what it will cost?

How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone

literfizzer — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:00:50 +0000

Sounds like fun. But is it really necessary to reflash the bootloader when installing a new firmware image? This is usually unnecessary and is the one thing that can really irrevocably brick the phone if it goes wrong.