LWN: Comments on "Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)"

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

nix — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:36:29 +0000

Given that no part of human society is free of murderers, saying that 'a
Linux kernel developer was a murderer' is just another way of saying 'a
lot of people are Linux kernel developers': eventually one *had* to be a
murderer. (To pick another rare category, Linux developers are not barred
from becoming saints, either. Thus, eventually, by sheer statistics, one
*will* be canonized. We just might have to wait a while. A long while.
Come back in five hundred years.)

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

ekj — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:12:59 +0000

Why should it ?

Come now. People are people. There are saints and sinners of all magnitudes in all communities, this doesn't really reflect on the community as such at all, unless you can show that community-values encourage or discourage certain behaviour (be it good or bad).

That a convicted murderer contributed to Linux kernel-development does not reflect negatively on the Linux-kernel in the least, nobody in their right mind would even claim that that community encourages such behaviour.

Likewise, Microsoft (and all other large companies) have employees that commit various criminal acts, be it murder or other things. This also does not reflect on them in any way, aslong as there's no link from their corporate culture and to the crime comitted.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

johnnymack — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:23:20 +0000

Two Microsoft employees have recently been involved in high-profile felonies in the Seattle area including rape and wife-murder:

http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/east_king/bel/news/26072609.html

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_073108WAB_redmo...

Kinda makes me feel better that I use Linux... hehehe :^)

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

njd27 — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:17:53 +0000

LWN doesn't mean Linux Weekly News any more, you know. See the FAQ.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

Ze — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 00:46:30 +0000

Those arguing case for strictly "Linux related" items, well sorry, but it is to me : mount | grep reiser /dev/sda5 on / type reiserfs (rw,noacl) /dev/sda6 on /var type reiserfs (rw,data=writeback,noacl) /dev/sda9 on /sw type reiserfs (rw,noacl) /dev/sda7 on /home type reiserfs (rw,noacl)

What did the article have to do with linux? Sure it had to do with Reiser but not everything that goes on in Reisers life has to do with linux , in fact I'm pretty sure not much that goes on in his life has to do with linux now.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

roblucid — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:45:34 +0000

> You may have gotten interest in the trial in the first place because of
> linux but that link as time has gone on has become more and more tenuous.

Hans Reiser developed an important and widely used file system (the first journalling filesystem) included in the 2.4.0 Linus kernel release. Now I agree Hans in jail, probably is having an enforced lower profile, but he is a Linux 'personality'; therefore LWN should keep us informed.

Those who aren't interested, can avoid investing the 30 seconds to skim read the item, but move on and just click on the tech news.

For me knowing LWN will cover such news, saves me polling places like wired, which would be really time consuming, on off chance there's something.

Those arguing case for strictly "Linux related" items, well sorry, but it is to me :

mount | grep reiser
/dev/sda5 on / type reiserfs (rw,noacl)
/dev/sda6 on /var type reiserfs (rw,data=writeback,noacl)
/dev/sda9 on /sw type reiserfs (rw,noacl)
/dev/sda7 on /home type reiserfs (rw,noacl)

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

lysse — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:40:47 +0000

> I don't agree with the people saying it shouldn't be reported on because of the damage it does to linux

Well, it's arguable that the damage Hans Reiser being convicted of murder does to Linux is considerably less than the damage Hans Reiser taking an active part in kernel development did, anyway. ;-)

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

Ze — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 04:54:03 +0000

LWN is read and can be respected, because they report the good and bad, not filtering things through some censorship filter. Hans Reiser, is someone of interest, I've used his file systems and seen him make the Linux news (for both good and bad reasons). The bottom line is, I don't want to nor expect to have to go somewhere like wired, to catch up on what's happening, my LWN subscription suffices.

I think the reporting on the Reiser case gone far beyond being relevant to linux now.

I don't agree with the people saying it shouldn't be reported on because of the damage it does to linux. I think that's a bit of a far-fetched argument. In that case the only conclusion is that the people think it's still relevant to linux and thus LWN should censor itself from damaging press to linux. If that was the case then I would cease to be a subscriber.

I do however agree with the people saying it's not relevant to linux though. I've ignored posting on here simply not to legitimize it any more but I feel your post deserves a reply. You may have gotten interest in the trial in the first place because of linux but that link as time has gone on has become more and more tenuous.

When Reiser contributes something else to linux then I'll be interested but going on and on about his trial is simply voyeuristic gossiping.

Safety-critical systems

AJWM — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:31:01 +0000

It's not a matter of reliability, as such. For some such applications and configurations, it might well be.

It's a matter of certifiable reliability. I'm not as up on the FDA requirements, but certainly FAA has some pretty strict requirements for documenting the process by which flight control software was developed, including documenting the specifications and so on, steps that harken back to the old waterfall method, quite different from typical FLOSS methodology. (It's slow as hell, but it does - when followed properly - produce reliable software (which then runs on hardware two generations old)).

That doesn't apply to experimental aircraft, of course -- wouldn't surprise me if there are some homebuilts using Linux for flight control software, so long as there's a manual override.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

roblucid — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:05:00 +0000

LWN is read and can be respected, because they report the good and bad, not filtering things through some censorship filter. Hans Reiser, is someone of interest, I've used his file systems and seen him make the Linux news (for both good and bad reasons). The bottom line is, I don't want to nor expect to have to go somewhere like wired, to catch up on what's happening, my LWN subscription suffices.

Anyone worried about the publicity due to Hans's criminal act, should just do a little searching and find all the big pay outs Microsoft have had to make over years, for various anti-competitive business practices. No one in business thinks MS are saints, but it doesn't seem to have done them (enough) harm!

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

jzb — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:56:43 +0000

I also wish the Linux press would drop the Reiser topic. This is *not* relevant any longer, if it ever was. I also wish the press would stop tying Reiser to Linux, as if that had anything to do with the case or his actions. Somehow, I don't think the press would use the same kind of attribution for a Windows or Mac OS X programmer.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

dalesc — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:51:29 +0000

"Trial do-over"? What is a do-over?

How about a "retrial"?

Or even "repeat trial"?

Give peace a chance

khirsha — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:32:21 +0000

I think the editor should known what his readers think about the articles he writes. Anyway he
can publish everything he want.

But about the question Gossip, do you really think that the morality of one peoples involved in
FLOSS developping would change anything? The FLOSS environment is made by all the
partecipant not by a single individual. I've heard nearly nothing about Hans Reiser after he was
found guilty and i've not seen any decadiment in the FLOSS expansion.

And in fact a lot of murderer can have a perfect behaviour during their work and a lot of
difficulties in their house. Yesterday morning a chartered accountant murdered his wife (a layer)
and his three son, but he probably did a good bookkeeping for his customers.

Safety-critical systems

tialaramex — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:30:01 +0000

Of course the same type of media "sources" that would introduce confusion about whether somehow Linux is "the work of a murderer" because one of many thousands of contributors killed someone wouldn't consider it important to distinguish between...

- The aeroplane runs Linux on an embedded PC which provides 64 channels of streaming music to passengers. If it fails passengers will watch a movie.

- The aeroplane runs Linux on a flight-related but non-essential system. If it fails the pilot will curse it and log it as a fault, but there's a million-to-one chance of this distraction contributing to an accident.

- The plane's engines run on a mixture of fairy dust and Puppy Linux. A bug in the IRC client will cause the wings to fall off and send your plane nose-diving into a mountain.

And it's not as though they're picking on us. When car manufacturers look at using Windows embedded, the same sources will happily assume that somehow Windows will control the engine and steering rather than, as is closer to reality, a DVD player and the stereo.

Safety-critical systems

epa — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:05:57 +0000

There is no way Linux is reliable enough for safety-critical systems like surgical lasers or flight control systems _anyway_. Hans Reiser's case doesn't change that.

Give peace a chance

rvfh — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:01:57 +0000

I think a lot of things here might be thought as irrelevant to some. I am personally happy to get some info on this case that somehow touches a lot of people in the FLOSS world.

But I can understand that you think differently. I'd just appreciate that you could filter through the articles without feeling the need to tell the editors what they should or should not post.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

oska — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:24:19 +0000

Sorry, I think you are just being silly. Any code that Reiser contributed is open source. We can look at the code. To think that there is 'some taint of a murderer' that is going to imperil patients being operated on by equipment which uses his code is plain sensationalist nonsense. Might make for a bad attempt at a Edgar Alan Poe type story but that's about it.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

pjdc — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:06:48 +0000

# CONFIG_REISERFS_FS is not set

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

jd — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:50:05 +0000

There are two aspects to this. First, there's the PR/advocacy aspect to users, which others have noted and is very important. Linux adoption amongst non-geeks depends on better advocacy.

However, there's also another side to all of this, that being the PR/advocacy side to potential future Linux developers. Think about the obviously deluded arguments you've noted. Think about some of the heated discussions he had on the Linux development mailing lists, which sometimes bordered on the fanatical. Now think of how that is going to alter how people think of other brilliant coders with short fuses.

Then, there's the folks involved in mission-critical stuff. Think of how much trust people will have in code that (in Reiser's case) was definitely written by someone 52 cards short of a full deck, and where much of the rest of the kernel has been submitted and/or reviewed by people of dodgy temperment. Hey, brilliant minds and lunatics are hard to distinguish at times. If people are going to use Linux for high-end stuff (controlling aircraft systems, operating medical equipment, stuff that really can't afford to go wrong), what kind of extra scrutiny are they going to insist on?

(Do you really want a surgical laser to be controlled by a system written in part by a known killer? Never mind that it's not the part that would make any difference. Any medical company found using even a 101% certified safe and robust Linux-based system is now going to figure in the possibility of a media scandal.)

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

MattPerry — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:36:07 +0000

I couldn't agree more.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

nix — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:27:06 +0000

Irrelevant maybe, but impressive as an example of paranoia and hairbrained schemes taken to extreme heights. I mean, from the article:

Reiser demands that DuBois' oxytocin levels be tested, and that if they are high, the courts should determine that Reiser was a victim of ineffective assistance of counsel and be granted a new trial.

What the hell?! Where legal theories go there's hairbrained and then there's beyond bizarre, and "high-oxytocin legal counsel implies new trial for confessed murderer" is the latter.

(IANAL, but I know weird when I see it)

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

proski — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:26:10 +0000

It's year 2008, and people in Silicon Valley know what Linux is, and many of them know someone using Linux at work or at home.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

sbergman27 — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:24:29 +0000

As a Linux and FOSS advocate, I find it relevant. Which is not to say that I feel that everyone must find it so. I've always thought it very fortunate that we have eye muscles which can so quickly and easily deflect our eyes down the page to the next story when we see one which does not interest us particularly. Comes in really handy at times. ;-)

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

MisterIO — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:55:34 +0000

I don't think so. I barely accepted as relevant the first articles which appeared here about this, because they were intended to inform about the future of an important Linux contributor. Now it's different, these are just his personal problems, I don't really see a reason to talk about this here. Obviously I don't want to censor anyone, it's just that these news are totally irrelevant here.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

sbergman27 — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:32:08 +0000

I believe that the relevance is that a guy who, for better or worse, represents Linux to some of the public, is engaging in further antics. There are a significant number of people who were introduced to the word "Linux" as that freeware written by that guy who killed his wife. This story was first reported in the San Francisco chronicle, and is now on Wired. It's the sort of thing we should at least be made aware of.

Linux Guru Reiser Seeks New Murder Trial (Wired)

MisterIO — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:55:36 +0000

We now know that he's guilty, so why should this still be relevant to this site?