LWN: Comments on "Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available"

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

ski_phreak — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:18:56 +0000

Quick follow-up.

I've enabled file-transfer in kpilot. Still humming along great. I have not yet tackled the Memo/Write problem. I'll keep you posted.

I'm using the standard stuff in kubuntu's Hardy repositories. For reference, here's the software versions I'm using:

Kontact
Version 1.2.9

KAddressBook
Version 3.5.10

KOrganizer
Version 3.5.9

KPilot Information
Version 4.9.4-3510

ski_phreak

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

ski_phreak — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:06:59 +0000

An ugly workaround, I thinnk!

I've been messing with kpilot and the kdepim (which only appears inthe KDE4 menus as kontact) most of the night.

Korganizer (the calendar part) seems buggy, but useable. I have not yet played with getting the memos and notes to sync.

1) quit all background daemons (korganizer and kmail have one)
2) launch kpilot
3) disable everything except calendar, contacts and to-dos
4) sync

note: kwallet and some gmail/gcalendar sync tools crashed me....but once I gave kwallet the passwords it needed, the 2nd sync worked.

5) close kpilot (you may want to check with system monitor or top)
6) launch kontact and *WAIT* for all activity to stop before clicking anything. Korganizer seems especially prone to crashes while fetching mail and redrawing its calendar at the same time.

** GOTCHAS RE: DEFAULT CALENDARS **
1) KDE's default calendar seems to replicate events every time it's synced.
2) syncing w/o any calendar set as default only works from PC->to->PDA

the fix is simple, but non-intuitive.
3) create your own calendar(s) (I've got Mine, Hers, Church, and Quintet)
4) set one of your new calendars as default (so things will sync to PDA)
5) delete KDE's default calendar so your events won't replicate.

PIM apps

ski_phreak — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:53:29 +0000

...well now, I just don't know how much credence I can give to somone who uses emacs instead of vi or vim.... <big_grin>

Seriously, though, here's a strange update for kpilot/korganizer and KDE4.

After nudzhing every $#*&! setting I could twiddle, I discovered that I can sync my calendar and addresses if I *DON'T* sync notes and memos.

In kpilot, settings->configure kpilot->conduits. I unchecked everything except addressbook, calendar, and to-dos. I'll have to see what else I can find in the next few weeks.

ski_phreak

PIM apps

undefined — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:55:11 +0000

not trying to convince you to abandon kde or gnome, but as an alternative: i use jpilot & sylpheed.

i like the minimalism while still using a gui (as compared to pilot-xfer & mutt ;-). but then again i use emacs/jmacs, rxvt, & midnight commander as compared to their "desktop environment" brethren, so maybe "different strokes for different folks".

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

jriddell — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:32:10 +0000

> Sad but Kubuntu decided to drop KDE 3.5 and move strictly to 4.x.
> Will have to move back to my once-favorite Debian-unstable.

As noted in the final announce, if you want to stick with KDE 3 then do stay with 8.04
(Hardy).

Hardy was intended as a stable-and-boring release, Intrepid is a cutting-edge-exciting
release. There is no automatic upgrade offered for this reason. Use whichever it right for
you.

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

ski_phreak — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 07:27:13 +0000

It's good to know the PIM works in Gnome. So far it's the only work-around I've heard of. My first (k)ubuntu was ubuntu+KDE. I use so many packages dependent on gnome (gnucash, gimp, gqview, grip....) that it made sense.

I tried Kubuntu this time not only to minimize the unnecessary gnome stuff, but also for better integration of Adept package monitoring. (Only seemed to work properly when running gnome, not KDE.)

Maybe I'll trying installing/using the gnome PIM stuff in KDE, or even Evolution.

If any readers have suggestions--especially gotchas to avoid, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks as always for the support and comraderie. (Komraderie? Gnomeraderie..?)

ski_phreak

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

jlokier — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:47:28 +0000

I must give full credit to Ubuntu for an excellent job.

All of the kernel bugs I found, and described above, were in late beta kernels, but by the time of the official release just two weeks later, they all seem to be fixed. That's very good considering how many tricky ones there were. Even the subtle ftrace bug was implicated and fixed in the time window :-)

I took the plunge and am now happily using Intrepid with an Intrepid kernel. :-)

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

drX — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 17:29:38 +0000

I am in the same boat. I am a bit frustrated that Kpilot stopped working even in Kubuntu 8.04 (trying the new KDE 4 packages broke it). PIM for me is also essential. I like eye candy and it is the main reason I decided to use KDE over GNOME when I switched from Windows. I will have to reinstall Kubuntu 8.04 in order to have Kpilot working again with Kontact. I really like the package management of (K)ubuntu and would like to stick to it, so maybe I will end up installing Ubuntu 8.10 with Gnome (which by the way, has Gnome-Pilot that works beautifully with my palm TX and Evolution). Gnome is OK but my KDE 3.5.10 was working perfectly until Kpilot got bad with the updates.

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

ski_phreak — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:17:23 +0000

Pros, Cons and HELP, please!

I love the speed and efficiency of KDE4. Even with a lot of effects turned on, it's fast and stable. Especially impressive since my nVidia card has only 128 megs.

Some of the new look & feel doesn't do much for me, but doesn't get in the way either. It's just DIFFERENT. I've been years on ubuntu with the KDE(3) package installed on top. Of COURSE it's different.

I have 2 problems that I would love help with, though.

1) Syncronizing my Palm. Kpilot and KDEpim used to work so flawlessly together. It was better than the software from Palm, Handspring, and LOADS better than anything that forces you to sync with Outlook.

Since loading a clean install of kubuntu w/ kde4, I've tried opensync, kitchensync, multisync, kpilot and even Palm's Hotsync running through wine. Kpilot and multisync both crash. Kitchensync will mostly sync calendar and contacts, but refuses to install files.

PIM is a must-have for me.

Does anyone know a way to get Kpilot working in KDE4 with the KDEpim suite?

2) Scanning requires root priveleges. This problem occurred in the last few udev updates even before KDE4. It's not mission critical, but I'd love to not have to sudo every time I scan, and have to chown and chgrp all the images before I can use them as non-root.

Any help will be appreciated a lot.

ski_phreak

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

Janne — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:07:01 +0000

"KDE 4 is certainly not ready for prime time."

Sure it is. I'm running it on my laptop, and I can't really see any major
issues. I think the complaint about KDE4 not being "ready" is about KDE4
not being identical to KDE3. Well, it will never be.

It's like the complaints about GNOME2 vs. the "old GNOME". Or OS X vs. Mac
OS9. The change was substantial, and people complained. But in the end, the
result was a system that was clearly superior than the old.

KDE4 is now 10 months old. 10 months. Give it time. It's growing fast :).

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

Janne — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:57:46 +0000

"KDE4 seems to be the never ending story."

Well, so is KDE3. I mean, they just released a new version of KDE3. KDE4
has now existed for... what, 10 months? And people are already calling it
"never-ending story"? Linux has existed about 16 years, and it isn't
finished yet either. And what about Emacs?

I remember running KDE2 when it was released. It was crashy and many things
didn't work right. KDE3 was a smoother release, since the amount of changes
weren't as big as it was between KDE1 and KDE2, but it too was crashy and
had parts that didn't work right.

Now we have KDE4, which is still (for all intents and purposes) fresh out
the oven. And it works well. Maybe not perfect, but well. Is it 1:1 equal
to KDE3? Of course not. But that does not mean that it's worse. It means
that it's different. Some things are still lacking, and some other things
are clearly superior, when compared to KDE3.

People are now comparing KDE4, with boatload of new ideas, technologies,
apps and code, all wrapped up in a 10 month old release, to KDE3.5, which
is result of _years_ of developement.

It kinda reminds me of GNOME2-release. The whining was deafening back then.
But the GNOME-team went ahead and created something great. And now it's
been a whopping 10 months, and people are already acting like KDE has been
utterly ruined or something like that. 4.1 was a huge step forward, and
looking at 4.2, I can see that it's equally huge step forward, if not even
bigger.

You might have something to worry about if the project was standing still
or if user-requests were being ignored. But the way it seems to me, the
team is busy adding all the missing features, polishing the system and
killing bugs. The speed of development is so fast that it's insane.

Just relax you all. It will be insanely great :).

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

modernjazz — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:20:47 +0000

> KDE4 is still really an alpha release.

At least on my installation, it's much nicer than that. Problem-free? No.
But I've been noticing that a number of the things that I thought were bugs
turn out to be settings that just don't all quite get properly migrated
over from a kde3 installation.

For me it works pretty well actually, well enough that the improved
functionality of some of the programs (okular being a prime example) is
already proving to be a net win.

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

kragil — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 06:53:37 +0000

OK, that is your opinion.

You can always keep using 8.04 which has 3.5.10 now.

Or just switch to Debian Lenny.

Kubuntu had to move on at some point and a most people think that time has definately come.

Why the hell anyone will want THIS?

khim — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:09:08 +0000

I cannot understand why KDE4 wasn't made by first porting KDE3 to QT4, before dramatically breaking everything!

It's not so hard to port KDE3 to QT4 (oh, it's still one or two man- years, but nothing compared to KDE4 creation), but... what are the benefits? If you just port KDE3 to QT4 then you are getting version which has worst properties from two worlds: it's not binary-compatible with KDE3 and it does not have any new properties.

Time will tell if this rewrite was needed or not, but if this rewrite was to happen then MUST have been done in parallel to QT3=>QT4 transition. There are just not enough developers to develop two versions of KDE...

KDE4 is actually pretty nice if you are looking at it from POV of newbie and don't expect it to have all the bells and whistles from KDE3. Thus I think KDE4 is ALREADY mature enough - it's just most old users expect to have KDE3 forever, but they are getting something different instead...

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

mgb — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:34:27 +0000

Big mistake by Kubuntu. KDE 4 has some interesting ideas and is perhaps suitable for bleeding edge Fedora but KDE 4 is certainly not ready for prime time.

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

mb — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:46:57 +0000

I don't understand that, either.
KDE4 seems to be the never ending story.

They should have ported stuff to QT4 without trying to do it all at once.

re: Kubuntu - KDE3 dropped

Richard_J_Neill — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:57:03 +0000

I cannot understand why KDE4 wasn't made by first porting KDE3 to QT4, before dramatically breaking everything! Most of the new stuff doesn't work, or is very unstable, or just wastes pixels.

Unfortunately, it seems as though KDE3 is being allowed to bitrot (lots of apps crash frequently, or behave weirdly), and KDE4 is still really an alpha release.

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

muwlgr — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:08:01 +0000

Sad but Kubuntu decided to drop KDE 3.5 and move strictly to 4.x.
Will have to move back to my once-favorite Debian-unstable.

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

tajyrink — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 08:15:45 +0000

[quote]The list is quite long, just from trying Intrepid's kernel on a Hardy system.[/quote]

Optimal functioning of the kernel depend on a number of user-space tools, thus the experience from running Intrepid's kernel on Hardy might not reflect the real situation.

That said, if you're using _Long-Term Supported_ release and you are even happy with it, please consider staying with it :) That's what the LTS releases are for.

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

madscientist — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 01:58:31 +0000

> I daren't upgrade, as downgrading isn't a practical option after
> upgrading, and the old (reliable) kernel is unlikely to work properly
> with an otherwise Intrepid system.

I don't know why you would think so. My dad's laptop hasn't worked properly with any kernel since Feisty. I've upgraded that system to every new release; I just keep using the Feisty kernel (2.6.20). Works fine.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/242400

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

jlokier — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:21:42 +0000

Ubuntu 8.04 is quite stable for me (kernel 2.4.24), but 8.10's kernel (2.4.27) breaks my laptop in a multitude of ways. Wedging up in multiple different ways, failing to boot occasionally, sound input not working sometimes, individual processes locking up, kernel event thread getting stuck at 100% CPU, dodgy resume, keyboard repeat running extra slow after a few hours, and bluetooth-3g-broadband via my phone no longer working. The list is quite long, just from trying Intrepid's kernel on a Hardy system.

I daren't upgrade, as downgrading isn't a practical option after upgrading, and the old (reliable) kernel is unlikely to work properly with an otherwise Intrepid system. Which is a shame, as I fancy some of the new apps.

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

alspnost — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:58:11 +0000

Sigh ... same theme, same problems. In late 2008 on a 2.6.27 kernel, my Intel PRO/E network card can still only run at *10* Mbps. Well, strictly it can run at 100 Mbps, but only for about 1 second before it falls over and starts flapping again. Anyway have any clues on this one? I mean, this is *dead common* hardware and I just can't believe no-one else has seen this. Even on the dreaded Vi$ta it works properly!

Ubuntu 8.10 release candidate available

einstein — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:21:43 +0000

After running the beta on my laptop, I'd call it an incremental improvement - but that's still an improvement. Running powertop on hardy, the number of wakeups per second I saw with all the power saving suggestions taken was around 125-150. On intrepid, it does around 25 wakeups per second under the same conditions, which should tranalate to longer battery life.