LWN: Comments on "KDE 4.1.2 Released"

Konqueror

aseigo — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:50:50 +0000

well, let's not confuse "Konqueror" with "KHTML". Konqueror uses KHTML for web content, but it's not
hard coded to do so.

i expect over the next little while we'll see other options open up for Konqueror. i'm using one of them
right now to post this (from konqueror), though it isn't quite ready public consumption.

KDE 4.1.2 Released

aseigo — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:48:21 +0000

it had nothing to do with threads, really; kio is out of process, but even that's not really relevant
here.

the issue was when upates were being signaled when creating/updating the data model for a
collection of files. the updates were being made at innopportune times, something that was a real
problem with big datasets and Qt3 unless you used your own model/view architecture on top of it.

with Qt4, we got an integrated model/view framework and David got around to finally taking full
advantage of it.

so, yes .. it is easy to criticize when you look at it from the perspective of the "7Mhz days" (network
transparency? file thumbnails? fancy graphics?) or when you are familiar with the inner workings of
the code .. but when you do get closer to the code (and move into the modern day requirements of
users), it's actually pretty interesting (and understandable) stuff.

KDE 4.1.2 Released

alecs1 — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:11:26 +0000

While I found getting threads right a bit harder with Qt than with, say, Java, it is doable.
I find the existance of this sort of bugs dissapointing. But again, I have never contributed to KDE so I am not the right person to criticize.

Konqueror

Camarade_Tux — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:02:57 +0000

It does not completely. You can fake ff2 but the chat will be buggy. You can fake safari2, there will be no chat and then only a minor size bug (it's only visual), you'll get everything else.

As for webkit, webkit can render gmail perfectly as shown by safari. HOWEVER, webkit-gtk has troubles with gmail, because of its curl backend which is not complete though.

But honestly, use gmail in the html-way UI. Firefox would use 20% of a T5450 core to display my inbox, without me doing *anything*.

Konqueror

dowdle — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:46:23 +0000

Considering Google is using Webkit for their own browser so they can (as I understand it) have more control for their webapps... I would think that Konqueror should work fine with gmail... if not now, in the near future.

Konqueror

Janne — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:04:11 +0000

"Everything you mention is awesome, but nowadays quite simply not enough,
by far."

I think the people who use Konqueror would disagree with you...

"I honestly tried to stay with Konqueror for web browsing for years, but
not anymore"

So because you prefer some other browser instead of Konqueror, it means
that Konqueror is "not enough"? We all have different needs and
preferences, and some people simply prefer Konqueror.

"Guess what? it will get Rejected."

And still, Konqueror has it's ahare of users.

"Not good enough, thank you, period."

And still, there are quite a few people who prefer it over some other
browser... How can that be since it's not good eenough? Could it be because
your needs and wants are not universal and that some people might prefer
something other than what you prerer?

Konqueror

forthy — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:58:30 +0000

What makes you think Konqueror can't Gmail? Gmail can't Konqueror, just fake the browser ID, and tell Google that your Konqueror is really Firefox. Maybe a few things render not perfectly, but mostly, it looks like it's working - the 3.5.9er version, not the 4.1.2er. It wouldn't cost much time to adapt Gmail perfectly to Konqueror, but apparently Google thinks it's not even worth that little effort. Maybe it's more effective to simply "fix" Konqueror instead, so that the browser ID spoofing really works. Note that browser-specific code really is the wrong kind of thinking, anyway.

To be honest: I use Firefox for Gmail, as well. I also use Firefox for heise.de, because the stylish plugin allows me to remove all the crap the web designers put on that page. For the rest, I use Konqueror - the 3.5.9er version. As much as I think 4.1.2 is now coming close to be usable, I stick with 3.5.9, because there are still too many minor quirks in 4.1.2.

Konqueror

ipes — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:32:30 +0000

Everything you mention is awesome, but nowadays quite simply not enough, by far. I honestly tried to stay with Konqueror for web browsing for years, but not anymore. I find it ridiculous that a supposedly oh-so-well integrated program has to take 2x or 3x or even 10x the time to display the same page and too often get it all wrong anyway. And after switching to Firefox (oops sorry Iceweasel) a while ago, now show me the greatest browser on Earth, fast, compatible, blah blah blah, but which doesn't support FF extensions, and guess what? it will get Rejected. Not good enough, thank you, period. Yes, it means I'm stuck with the Cancel button in front of the OK button and all the other maddeningly retarded UI stuff. But I just take it as life not being perfect. I still use Konqueror as a file manager, buggy but OK program. Yet to try Dolphin, but not too excited about that either.

Konqueror

niner — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:41:47 +0000

Why use konqueror? Maybe because it starts instantly, seems to eat less
RAM and most of all: is really nicely integrated into the desktop. For
example I can use my filesystem bookmarks, and upload a file via some web
interface, that I get from another machine via fish://
And the dialogs look like and behave like the dialogs in my other
applications, and not completely different (and unusable like the file
save dialog)

Konqueror

rvfh — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:31:32 +0000

As long as Konqueror can't do Gmail, I'm stuck with Firefox. And if you have Firefox, why use Konqueror at all?

KDE 4.1.2 Released

eru — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 08:46:22 +0000

I'm not familiar with Qt programming, but I wonder if this might not be so much a case of developers having "too fast" computers, but of a deficiency in the abstraction that does not have any convenient knob for preventing screen updates while the underlying data structures are modified? The complexity of the modern interfaces may also make it more difficult. Back in the 7 Mhz days, that list box was about the most complicated ready-made widget you had in the toolbox...

KDE 4.1.2 Released

Tuxie — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:15:37 +0000

Programming books used to tech things like this ("Always disable redrawing before filling a list box!") back in the days but that knowledge seems to have vanished with the new generations of coders which are used to CPUs faster than 7 Mhz. :)

"Premature optimization..." and all that but it's always good to develop good habits.

KDE 4.1.2 Released

muwlgr — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 06:59:43 +0000

1. Is Konqueror going to have "the real" JavaScript engine, like, SquirrelFish/TraceMonkey/V8 ? FrostByte feels, you know, so "May 2008"ish :>

2. Is Kopete'4.1.2 able to work through HTTP proxies for, say, ICQ ? If not, Pidgin keeps to be my choice.

KDE 4.1.2 Released

sebas — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:00:30 +0000

Many people did. It was one of the 'most popular' bugs, and had been there since -- I think -- KDE 3.0.

KDE 4.1.2 Released

vblum — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 08:17:46 +0000

That is an outstanding idea.

I noticed the same in KMail long ago, it does a million redraws during startup and many other operations. Normally one does not notice this, but if you tried to open KMail via X on a "slow" connection (any standard DSL connection), you get to follow the process in slow-motion, in my case for approx. 10 minutes.

I did file a bug at the time (KDE 3.x) but don't think it ever got picked up .... have not tried KDE 4 yet, but I hope someone has done something about it.

KDE 4.1.2 Released

dkite — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:14:44 +0000

The speedup came from eliminating redraws.

Derek

KDE 4.1.2 Released

pr1268 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:13:31 +0000

Deleting files got a nice 32 times speedup.

I'd hate to experience the "before" version of that algorithm. Or see its code. Ugh!

KDE 4.1.2 Released

Thue — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:46:54 +0000

Following that choice of codename, I bet KDE 4.1.3 will be codenamed "Placeholder"...