LWN: Comments on "Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org"

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

jtc — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 03:05:12 +0000

For what it's worth, wikipedia says the following about the openxml license (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_Open_XML):

The Microsoft Office Open XML format will be available under a free and perpetual license from Microsoft.[3]

There has been a lot of argument about the ability for OSS software to use the format even under this fairly open license. Microsoft has tried to diminish these concerns by officially stating in a covenant not to sue[4] [5] that it will not sue any organisation for using the format if the implementation complies to the official OOXML Ecma standard file formats. This has led to a greater reassurance that the OOXML formats will also be available for use in OSS software as even expressed by OSS licensing expert Larry Rosen.[6]

A further indication of the free and open use of the format was given by Microsoft XML program manager Brian Jones as he presents a legal analysis on the covenant not to sue and also states that there is "no license needed to use the Office Open XML formats."[7]

It seems somewhat ambiguous. Perhaps it needs to be renamed somewhatOpenXML.

It's not the apps, it's the file format

AJWM — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:44:54 +0000

> Beleive it or not the vast majority of businesses don't give a crap about OSI standards or anything else remotely approaching that.

They will. Many, many government organizations around the world have regulations that require that they follow ISO standards wherever possible. That's why some years back MSFT raced to get (parts of) .NET ISO-certified, to catch up with the path that Sun was following with Java, and that's why MSFT is now racing to get OpenXML ISO-certified to catch up with ODF before too much lossage occurs.

Of course any company wanting to do business with said goverments and governmental organizations will want (and may be required) to follow those standards too. If the standard settled upon is ODF (ISO-xyz), that's a huge hit to Microsoft's effective monopoly on document format.

Since most non-US governments (and a few at various levels within the US) have no love for Microsoft (and do tend to have a love for spending tax dollars on something that will buy votes rather than just something that keeps the office running), there's a built-in bias towards ODF anyway even if (when) OpenXML is blessed by ISO.

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

job — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:41:56 +0000

But OpenXML will also be an ISO standard shortly, as Microsoft has the resources to shorten the standardization process (I suppose the format isn't up to discussion anyway). If have the impression that Sun also pushed that there were several independent implementations of OpenDocument and that this was something the EU and other institutions listened to.

This move will give the OpenXML format an independent implementation as well, and I fear that this will be more heavily pushed by Microsoft market even if Novell does not implement the whole format, DRM and all, which is most probably is not included.

It's not the apps, it's the file format

bronson — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 05:36:54 +0000

I don't buy it. Numerous municipalities are asking for ODF by name (we'll see if Massachusetts continues doing so after the upcoming leadership change).

If ODF works well, and if MS continues pushing OpenXML on their customers, ODF could very well become the de facto document interchange format. It's worth a shot.

So why would Novell spend time on OpenXML? Isn't that like adding perfect emulation to OS/2?

"adds" or "to add"

midg3t — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 03:08:17 +0000

I got the impression from the headline that Novell had finished the OpenXML support, rather than that it is planning on it. I guess that comes from reading too many commit logs where present tense means past tense.

It's not the apps, it's the file format

drag — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 02:56:48 +0000

Microsoft doesn't need any help. They are doing a terrific job on their own.

Beleive it or not the vast majority of businesses don't give a crap about OSI standards or anything else remotely approaching that. They use what works and are going to avoid stuff that makes their lives difficult.

Right now ODF would make their lives difficult. OpenXML is going to be used by many many more people simply because many many more people are going to use Microsoft Office and that is what it is going to use.

So if there is any hope of dislodging MS Office with OpenOfdice.org and then utlimately Linux desktops then compatability with file formats is a minimal requirement. There isn't anything anybody can realy do about it.

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

djabsolut — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 02:04:03 +0000

The press announcement had a small misspelling. The correct one is "ClosedXML", aka "Ye Shall Have No Other File Format Gods apart from Microsoft".

It's not the apps, it's the file format

willy — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:48:52 +0000

Microsoft have been trying to kill ODF with OpenXML for years (groklaw has extensive coverage of this). Word and Excel are the standard file formats for word processor and spreadsheet data, and ODF threatens that. OpenXML would be yet another Microsoft-controlled file format with just enough grey areas in the specification to be sure that nobody else is quite compatible with it.

While this announcement isn't surprising (it was mentioned as part of the PR around the deal), it is disappointing. It's sad to see Novell helping Microsoft retain their stranglehold on the desktop.

I'm sure people will trot out the "interoperability" argument. It helps customers, I'm sure. In the short term, anyway.

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

iabervon — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:52:57 +0000

Doubtful; if all they were concerned about were whether a particular piece of software could read it, they wouldn't switch from the older Office formats, which OpenOffice can handle just as well. The reason to switch to ODF is that it's a published ISO standard, a wide variety of programs can handle it, it serves the needs of a diverse set of users, and it is clearly specified such that future programs will agree on the intended interpretation of documents.

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

kirkengaard — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:49:59 +0000

You're being rhetorical, right?

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

kirkengaard — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:49:07 +0000

As long as everything is legitimately GPL and clean, it should all be fine. But they have the same problem contributing encumbered source to a public project that anyone else has. If Novell offers the open-source public something it can't use after 5 years, or that only "hobbyists" or SuSE customers can use, or something that is patent-ridden and that MS wants to use to torpedo the project, it is being risibly naive.

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

job — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:39:15 +0000

Will this enable the EU and other official institutions to choose OpenXML instead of OpenDocument?

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

tzafrir — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:29:45 +0000

Does Microsoft have patents related to Office 2003?

Novell adds OpenXML to OpenOffice.org

nowster — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:21:00 +0000

The obvious question is: does Microsoft have patents on OpenXML?