Idiom exclusion is really so important

Posted Nov 13, 2024 10:40 UTC (Wed) by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
In reply to: Idiom exclusion is really so important by pm215
Parent article: Progress on toolchain security features

Nope. Sorry, these builtins are a just a planetary abomination. The identity of the arithmetic operation is completely erased, making it absolutely in-obvious that it's in fact an arithmetic operation rather than a random function call.

It needs to be a `__some_builtin(expr)`, where `expr` is a **regular** arithmetic expression using **regular** + and - symbols.

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Idiom exclusion is really so important

Posted Nov 13, 2024 10:50 UTC (Wed) by pm215 (subscriber, #98099) [Link] (2 responses)

I certainly wouldn't use the naked builtin directly, but that's true of most GCC builtins. But I'll absolutely take "looks like a function call and has 'add' as a word rather than '+' as a symbol, but is extremely obviously doing an overflow check" over "has '+' in the expression but is ridiculously opaque about what it is actually doing", especially when the thing it is doing is important for correctness and often for security.

No objections if you want to get nicer facilities added to the compiler, but in the interim I'll use the ones we have. And if I did have to work with a compiler where I had to use "x + y < x" I would wrap it in a function so I could give it a clearer name...

Idiom exclusion is really so important

Posted Nov 13, 2024 11:09 UTC (Wed) by intelfx (subscriber, #130118) [Link] (1 responses)

> But I'll absolutely take "looks like a function call and has 'add' as a word rather than '+' as a symbol, but is extremely obviously doing an overflow check" over "has '+' in the expression but is ridiculously opaque about what it is actually doing"

Who was saying anything about being opaque?

I just proposed a `__builtin_overflows(expr)` thing which makes it equally obvious that it is a test for overflow. **And** that it is an arithmetic expression.

All those builtins disguising arithmetic operations as function calls — no. Just no. The arithmetics are infix for a reason. This is C, not some kind of a Lisp or a reverse Forth.

Idiom exclusion is really so important

Posted Nov 13, 2024 11:20 UTC (Wed) by pm215 (subscriber, #98099) [Link]

You seemed to me to be proposing that until this suggestion of yours is implemented in compilers we should continue to open-code "if (x + y < x)". That open-coding is what I am describing as opaque.

Your idea is clearly nicer than the existing builtins, but we don't have it yet and in the best case won't have it widely available for years, so the question of what is most legible and least bug prone given current compiler facilities still matters, I think.

Idiom exclusion is really so important

Posted Nov 13, 2024 11:01 UTC (Wed) by error27 (subscriber, #8346) [Link]

Yeah. That would be nice. My idea is that it would be scope based. The compiler would trap any integer overflows and goto the label. I've left off \ characters and probably made typos but you get the idea:

#define saturate(math...) (__attribute__(overflow overflowed_label) {
size_t result;
bool overflow = false;
result = (math);
goto done;

overflowed_label:
overflow = true;
done:
overflow ? SIZE_MAX : result;
})