Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem [LWN.net]

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 13, 2023 11:11 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem by Wol
Parent article: Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

> The twisted reasoning is assuming that they mean the same thing.

That would be very strange, isn't it? If they mean the same thing then why even have different sublanguages.

> The twisted reasoning that assumes "actively make available" means "place on the market"?

That couldn't be right. Various companies give out simplified “personal” versions of their products for free all the time. Some even give their products completely free and just collect money from ads.

That activity should be covered by law because otherwise it's obvious loophole to be exploited by megacorps… and I couldn't see where and how such activity would be separated from what Debian and Gentoo are doing.

More: I don't even see the desire (on the lawmakers side) to try to create such separation. They are much more concerned about the fact that Google/Microsoft/etc may use AOSP, Debian and other such outlets as a means to shirk their responsibility than they concerned about the fact that this may destroy Debian, Gentoo or some other such group.

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Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 13, 2023 13:33 UTC (Wed) by bluca (subscriber, #118303) [Link] (2 responses)

> That couldn't be right.

And yet, that's exactly how the single market works, as it has been explained many times already.

> Various companies give out simplified “personal” versions of their products for free all the time. Some even give their products completely free and just collect money from ads.

Which are both part of a business activity consisting of placing products in the single market for EU customers.

> I couldn't see where and how such activity would be separated from what Debian and Gentoo are doing.

The separation is due to missing the fundamental first step: marketing products in the single market for EU customers.

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 13, 2023 14:41 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> The separation is due to missing the fundamental first step: marketing products in the single market for EU customers.

Genuinely curious. Am I correct in understanding that no formal registration is needed to place (some/many/most) products on the market? If so, what exactly entails "marketing" in this context?

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 13, 2023 15:17 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

It's defined in the "Blue Book" or something like that. That was pointed to in a earlier re-run of this saga.

Basically it's something like "making an open offer to treat", another bit of legalese. But that's effectively putting up a shop window, with a load of products, WITH PRICE TAGS, and saying to the world and his wife "come in, look around, and if you want to give me what I'm asking for we have a deal".

This is VERY different from shoving a load of products on a table at the end of your driveway, and sticking up a sign that says "help yourself. When they're gone they're gone".

The first is a contract - there is a two-way exchange of benefit between the parties to the contract. The second may well be to the benefit of the giver, but there is no guarantee of any benefit and the benefit may not come from the recipient.

All this nasty legalese is simply to prevent people disguising the first version as the second, with the intent of avoiding responsibility or benefiting unfairly.

(And where you are doing contract work for someone, you make them an "offer to treat" - pay you a decent wage for your work - and then you have a contract where you tell them either they guarantee your work, or if they want to offload liability onto you, they have to pay the insurance premium as part of your invoice. The "open offer" simply means anyone can walk in off the street and accept what's on the table, whereas an "offer" can be "please negotiate".)

Cheers,
Wol