Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem [LWN.net]

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 12, 2023 15:26 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem by Wol
Parent article: Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

When one discusses bills (that are not yet turned into law) the best way to understand what said bill is supposed to achieve is to… gasp… talk to lawmakers.

And Apache foundation did precisely that! They meet these guys and have tried to explain that what they propose would make entities like Apache Foundation or Rust Foundation liable for that they make.

And the answer they got was, of course: indeed, that was our intent, why do you think we don't understand that??

I think if people would understand the logic behind that decision instead of trying to glean it from actual preliminary text everyone would be much happier: even if today the text that we have doesn't align with goals lawmaker have it doesn't mean we should go with text. Text may be fixed or altered, intent would remain.

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 12, 2023 17:17 UTC (Tue) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (5 responses)

> And the answer they got was, of course: indeed, that was our intent, why do you think we don't understand that?

To be honest, I found that Apache blog post pretty frightening.

Because it appears to show that what most of the doomsayers are saying about the effects of CRA-as-drafted is the actually its legistlated _intent_ , and not collateral damage that could be "fixed" -- in other words, the opposite of what I and many others thought.

...Either you're all-in and treated the same as a multibillion-euro megacorp, or you have to divest yourself of _any_ activities that could be remotely construed as commercially-adjacent -- which is a threshold so low that it's trivial to accidentally cross it.

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 12, 2023 23:36 UTC (Tue) by bluca (subscriber, #118303) [Link] (4 responses)

That ASF blog is scaremongering anarcho-capitalism at its finest. Not surprising, seeing who pays the bills: https://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsors

Corporations like Google are terrified of this regulations. The Android market, that forms the core of its profit-making, will be decimated once vendors are no longer allowed to throw devices over the wall and forget about them. Good!

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 13, 2023 2:19 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (3 responses)

> That ASF blog is scaremongering anarcho-capitalism at its finest. Not surprising, seeing who pays the bills

Do you have an actual refutation of Apache's citations, or are you just going to spew more unsupported nonsense?

(Seriously. Your consistent position here is "the EU's efforts are well intentioned so it will all work out fine eventually, and any concerns are complete BS and could only possibly benefit the Googles of the world)

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 13, 2023 10:39 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

Given that your position (sorry pizza) is that this legislation is going to completely up-end and overturn the fundamental basis of contract law and consumer protection in Europe, I really fail to see how your position has any support, either!

Courts really do not like (thanks, PJ) legislation that completely redefines the legal landscape. That comes into a total vacuum. If things really are as bad as you say, European contract law will collapse, and the legislative panic will be the Eighth Wonder Of The World. If things really are as bad as you say, certainly in the UK the Judges will completely gut it, on the basis that it conflicts with other - long standing - legislation that it was never meant to overturn.

Cheers,
Wol

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 13, 2023 13:06 UTC (Wed) by bluca (subscriber, #118303) [Link] (1 responses)

It's worse than that - it completely misunderstands how the single market works and who is responsible for what, and what constitutes marketing a product. The charitable interpretation is that it was put together by Americans applying their understanding of their market rules to a completely different context.

Bottomley: Solving the Looming Developer Liability Problem

Posted Dec 18, 2023 16:46 UTC (Mon) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

> The charitable interpretation is that it was put together by Americans applying their understanding of their market rules to a completely different context.

Someone corp just mistakenly awarded the FUD-ing contract to its Washington lobbying office, forgetting Europe in in another continent. Had it been awarded to its Brussels office, the drivel would be different and better camouflaged.

That or the whole lobbying effect is targeted Washington-side, see, sir, time for a new commercial war, because the Brussels office already lost the first round.

Or else the corp could not figure how to influence US relays from Brussels using people who understood EU law.

There are lots of interpretations. The only sure thing is that it’s a publish-this-thing-we’ve-written-for-you lobbying run that does now reflect well on the ASF.