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Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 29, 2023 22:58 UTC (Wed) by archaic (subscriber, #111970)
Parent article: Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

I am a subscriber to LWN because I like to follow news about open source software, not because I like to follow political activism campaigns that attempt to piggyback (very loosely) on some ethereal ideals and concepts that many in open source software also liken themselves to.


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Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 29, 2023 23:25 UTC (Wed) by tohojo (subscriber, #86756) [Link] (1 responses)

Well I, for one, consider this entirely on topic, and I'm delighted to see it covered here and at such length!

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 31, 2023 8:42 UTC (Fri) by ale2018 (subscriber, #128727) [Link]

> Well I, for one, consider this entirely on topic, and I'm delighted to see it covered here and at such length!

Me too. This is one of the articles I enjoyed best. Feeling that my effort as a programmer to increase openness of my little turf is part of a wider movement, and gathering the overall political implications are good motivators and good value for the cost of my subscription.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 29, 2023 23:32 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (2 responses)

We're sorry if you didn't like the article. We wrote it because we thought it was relevant and worth thinking about. Rest assured that the next few days will be focused on the grungy issues of project governance and technical design that have been at the core of LWN's work for over two decades.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 11:24 UTC (Thu) by lobachevsky (subscriber, #121871) [Link]

I for one welcome this article and articles like it. Free software has always been political and this is just as much on topic as deeply technical discussions.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 31, 2023 21:33 UTC (Fri) by tonyblackwell (guest, #43641) [Link]

A superb summary, very well written, covering stuff central to "open" wishes for our future. My hat off to Jake for crafting this, both for its own sake and for broadening LWN's coverage of our world beyond its often very-narrow focus on the minutiae of kernel internals.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 29, 2023 23:55 UTC (Wed) by motk (subscriber, #51120) [Link] (2 responses)

Nah, this is pretty good stuff. You can't libertarian yourself out of enshittification.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 12:51 UTC (Thu) by kpfleming (subscriber, #23250) [Link]

This statement wins the Internet. Game over.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 3, 2023 0:43 UTC (Mon) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

It's no surprise that Libertarianism is especially strong in the USA: this is where "David vs Goliath" myths and cults of many world-saving heroes (fictional and not) are the strongest. Hollywood stories do reflect the specific culture they come from, the one where parents tell their kids that "anything is possible".

So it's no surprise either that monopolies, monopsonies and "chokepoint capitalism"strive here. Designing regulations that can tame them and maintain some competition is really difficult and can indeed backfire, so why bother when you can just wait for David Libertarian to show up and "disrupt" the oligarchy? Like in the movies.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 0:26 UTC (Thu) by ras (subscriber, #33059) [Link] (4 responses)

> political activism campaigns

I was at the talk, and yes, it was about a political activism campaign, created in response to the negative effects of a monopsony on some people. I think you are right in saying it didn't have much to do with open source directly.

But those monopsonies were made possible by advancements in the last two decades made by computers and communications (the internet), and such advancements are built largely on the back of open source plus a layer of proprietary glue and candy. I found this explanation of the left field effects on society created by what is effectively both my profession and my hobby to be both unexpected and enlightening.

But more to the point, while it is true to say it didn't have much to do with "open source" directly, if you remove just one word, "source", then what's left ("openness" or "transparency") turned out to be very relevant. The companies went to great lengths to hide what their systems/algorithms were in their proprietary software. Only when that was stripped away (by what was effectively an unintentional data leak by the companies themselves), did the politics kick in.

Effectively the companies are using the monopsonies they built to redirect money from the supplies to their shareholders. I don't want moral discussions about whether that is fair or not here. What is interesting to me is that while the large reduction in money paid to the suppliers has been self-evident for a long while, it didn't trigger much of a reaction in society as a whole. I presume that was because most assumed it was just the market being efficient or something else people found morally acceptable. It was only after a light was shone on the mechanism they were using to do the redirect that this political movement took off. Thus, the political activism we are seeing is a direct effect of "openness". I suspect that will resonate with many here, just as it did at Everything Open.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 0:48 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (3 responses)

> I think you are right in saying it didn't have much to do with open source directly.

It may not affect open source directly, but it's very relevant indirectly.

If you look on what these companies doing while building these moats you'll see that majority of huge open source projects (Android and Chrome, Linux kernel and React and lots of other tools) are created as part of effort of building these.

And there, too, we observe similar effects: independent makers (like Firefox, e.g.) just couldn't compete.

What to do about that? Is it Ok to have just one browser because no one but some largest companies can build anything comparable (and even they need to cooperate)?

It's extremely tricky question because alternative to these open core offers would have been purely closed offerings from Microsoft and Oracle, not plethora of open-source competition!

It it bad thing? Is it good thing? I honestly don't know.

In essence Linux Kernel (as it exists today) is something these huge companies built together to ensure that none of competitions (neither large nor small) can use better OS kernel to outcompete them… but as a result they also ensured that, basically, every “mom and pop” shop can also use one of the best OS kernels… for free.

I wonder if books tries to address that part of the story. It's much less clear-cut than these attempts to rob audiobook authors from their income.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 7:20 UTC (Thu) by mfuzzey (subscriber, #57966) [Link]

>In essence Linux Kernel (as it exists today) is something these huge companies built together

Yes I think the good part of the Linux model is that while the modern Linux kernel is definitely built by corporation funded developers the corporations themselves have relatively little control over development itself. That power lies with maintainers who, while generally also corporate employees themselves, can quite easilly switch if needed.

Sure the companies get to choose which parts of the kernel the people they employ work on and will logically favour areas that are useful to them but they are not the judges of what is accepted technically so you don't get the quality / time to market compromises so frequent in proprietary software.

The Linux model has found a way of harnessing the financial resources of corporations to ensure plenty of developer time (without which it is difficult to scale beyond a few people scratching their own itch) but without handing effective control to them with all the downsides that go with that.

But, unfortunately, I don't think the model is generally applicable, it only really works for really foundational bedrock things like the kernel where companies can be convinced to cooperate rather than compete.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 13:33 UTC (Thu) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link] (1 responses)

> If you look on what these companies doing while building these moats you'll see that majority of huge open source projects (Android and Chrome, Linux kernel and React and lots of other tools) are created as part of effort of building these.

Actually, most of those huge open source projects are built over huge pre-existing free software components, and those megacorps are using the very same playbook described in the article to corner those too, by coopting key players, and burying the free software core bellow a layer they have total control of (typically by promoting “open source” over “free software”, “service” over “protocol”, “static builds” and “vendoring” over “dynamic substitutable linking”).

Those all make it easier to capture and control access to the “free software” stack that enabled them to build their wares.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 13:48 UTC (Thu) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

If I may add, “static builds”, “vendoring”, “image-based” deployments are all part of an even older playbook the megacorps are all too happy to recycle. By making any replacement an all or nothing thing, that mixes open, free and closed components in an unscrutable messy blob, the bar for replacement and substitution is raised above the capabilities of most competitors.

The previous generation of software giants understood it very well, and they played the anticompetitive complexity game till they choked on needless complexity added just to corner the market, and were unseated by simpler free software alternatives.

The current generation of software giants are busy re-complexifying their solutions to lock down the market and close the free software capabilities that enabled them to rise in the first place.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 0:29 UTC (Thu) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (1 responses)

This is relevant to software developers too, whom I consider to be creative laborers.

Google and Apple have chokepoints on software that they permit to run on their devices. Sony and Microsoft have similar chokepoints over their gaming consoles. The fact that general-purpose PCs, especially those running Linux, don't have such chokepoints is likely seen as a bug by corporations who would almost certainly love to change that.

In an anticompetitive market, free software will die because monopolies will have the power they need to kill it.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 20, 2023 14:44 UTC (Thu) by immibis (subscriber, #105511) [Link]

The war on general-purpose computers is absolutely not new, and has been covered on LWN before. It mostly centers around Secure Boot / TPM functionality. Microsoft very nearly succeeded in winning this war. They may still do so.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 1:40 UTC (Thu) by hDF (subscriber, #121224) [Link]

I expected the worst when opening this article, but was pleasantly surprised. There's no culture war noise, just a discussion on how our industry affects the rest of the world. Something to think about for when tech recruiters ask you to come "change the world" with them.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 10:31 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

This article is about free market failures, induced by confluence of technology and copyright, affecting creative workers everywhere - including tech workers. Seems very on-topic to me. And free market failures arising out of predatory behaviour by large companies who built monopolies or monopsonies should be a concern to everyone, whether right-wing or left-wing.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 14:41 UTC (Thu) by bferrell (subscriber, #624) [Link]

I have a somewhat dislike of CD... BUT, while he's involved in the book, the article is incredibly on-topic and calling it "political activism" is a bit like Wernher von Braun saying "WWII rockets were very successful, they just landed in the wrong place". Opensource/Linux has been key in proliferation these types of "societal weapons".

Yes, the entertainment industry was infamous for their creative book keeping almost from the start but due to technological constraints, was somewhat contained (proliferation/distribution was expensive; micropayments not possible due to that expense). Micro-pay is key to all of this and the volumes involved make hiding the details easy.

The mantra of "move fast/disrupt/break things" allows for even more lack of responsibility in the area.

FOSS/freedom is about about the impact that freedom has on the world around us, not just the freedom to code what you want.



Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 16:16 UTC (Thu) by jschrod (subscriber, #1646) [Link]

It's quite simple - if the topic doesn't interest you, well, then don't read the article!

But don't tell us others, who find this article about usage consequences of technology to the point and fitting for the topics that LWN.net covers, that it shall not be here.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 30, 2023 21:34 UTC (Thu) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link] (1 responses)

Hand waving this away as “politics”, i.e. forgiving Amazon for the same crooked demeanour Microsoft had in the 90s and which it *has been doing* in the tech industry (keyword: AGPL3), does not sit right with me. There's something insidious in the current state of civilization about tech sector people who fixate on Technology™ as an imagined self-sustaining concept in a context-free vacuum, a perpetual motion machine of thinkpieces that don't require one to think, who then balk in disgust at anyone who dares to lay bare the consequences all this has on real people. Never *at* the consequences. It's why the FSF has been an ineffectual joke for most of its existence.

I'd rather read things like this than the next instalment of the 10,000-comment systemd soap opera. That, to me, is also politics: a bunch of incredibly boring talking heads loudly incorrecting each other over something of infinitesimal consequence. Computing as a two-way medium is inherently political; I for one would rather see politics that try to *do* something than surrender the stage to a crowd that gets violent in a 16th-century way over ini files on their hard disk.

That comment could be posted verbatim under an article about codes of conduct and be no less semantically valid. The tone and intent would be a lot less ambiguous though. Would you feel comfortable doing that?

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 31, 2023 12:28 UTC (Fri) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

I would just like to note that one workable definition of "politics" is "the way people relate to perceived groupings of other people". FOSS is full of "perceived groupings of other people" (kernel developers, GNOME developers, Debian users, Gentoo users, Freedom-maximalists, systemd lovers, systemd haters and more), and thus politics is an inevitable part of FOSS.

In turn, this means that attacking something as "politics" is basically a short hand for "you disagree with my classification of people into groups and/or my expectation of how those groups should behave", and is therefore not useful feedback. It's better to identify what specifically you object to.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 31, 2023 8:34 UTC (Fri) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link] (7 responses)

This is extremely relevant to 'Open Source'.
GIt was designed as a distributed system where everybody could publish with just a website.
Github redefined GIT as a client server system when they own all the servers.
Even when one keeps a server, the pressure from the community to host the project on github is enormous.
The e14n of github has already started with compulsory participation to Copilot.
In some way we are back to 1989 when Microsoft controlled all usable software by controlling the OS.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 3, 2023 9:53 UTC (Mon) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link] (6 responses)

>GIt was designed as a distributed system where everybody could publish with just a website.

>Github redefined GIT as a client server system when they own all the servers.

Git never changed, it's still a distributed system. The problem is that it's not enough to develop an actual product. Git has no features to track reviews, for example. You may need to designate a branch as "authoritative" and then apply permission to control that, Git doesn't provide any help in that area. That's by design, it describes itself as a "stupid content tracker". And it does that very very well.

Hence sites like Github which round out Git's features to something that's actually usable to build an actual product. That the Linux kernel is developed by having all the developers subscribing to various mailing lists might work for them but most people would describe that as ridiculously impractical.

I agree there is pressure, many sites that develop elsewhere maintain a Github mirror for visibility, which due to Git's nature is trivial to arrange. Despite what people say, there are many competitors and self-hosting still happens. I don't like the Gitlab workflow either, I'm more a Gerrit fan myself, but to each their own.

As for the "compulsory participation to Copilot", ISTM they're simply exercising Software Freedom 1: The freedom to study how a program works [using the source code]. You may be thinking "that's not what I meant", but that's a different issue.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 3, 2023 11:43 UTC (Mon) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> As for the "compulsory participation to Copilot", ISTM they're simply exercising Software Freedom 1: The freedom to study how a program works [using the source code]. You may be thinking "that's not what I meant", but that's a different issue.

Hmmm...

What they are doing, what they think they are doing, what other people think they are doing, and what other people do, are four different realities. I would be completely unsurprised if other people come up with more.

What they ARE doing is provided half-baked dodgy teaching materials, encouraging licence violations, etc etc.

They may say that's not their intention, and I believe them, but - as with the FSF's four freedoms! - actions have consequences, and quite often what happens is not what the originators intended to happen (or maybe it is ...)

Cheers,
Wol

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 3, 2023 16:30 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (2 responses)

There are some pretty good self-hosting alternatives to GitHub. E.g., Gogs - or its fork - is very easy to get installed and working.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 3, 2023 16:34 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

I'd love to see some kind of distributed bug reporting/handling in git though. And, ideally, integrated with code review. I don't know how useable any of the solutions in this space are.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 11, 2023 5:01 UTC (Tue) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link]

Forgejo is supposedly building distributed collaborative features for git, but they've barely made any progress in a year beyond adding an empty skeleton metadata API (and unfortunately it's going to use ActivityPub, so the result is all but guaranteed to be a big ball of mud).

The closest existing thing to what you're asking for may be Fossil, which is lacking the somewhat critical feature here of "being git". And its code review support is a bit nonexistent, since it was built in service of a project that infamously doesn't take any outside contributions. Could serve as a source of inspiration for anyone looking to build something new though.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 5, 2023 12:27 UTC (Wed) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link]

> As for the "compulsory participation to Copilot", ISTM they're simply exercising Software Freedom 1: The freedom to study how a program works [using the source code].

Precisely, they updated the TOS to give them rights, instead on relying on the license.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 6, 2023 8:09 UTC (Thu) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

ISTM they're simply exercising Software Freedom 1: The freedom to study how a program works [using the source code].

Copilot doesn't study how a program works. It studies what bits of syntax appear next to one another and how frequently.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 31, 2023 11:08 UTC (Fri) by Kiwi (subscriber, #45876) [Link] (1 responses)

Open source software is intrinsically political. Few things aren't political actually.
I despite those spaces which try to be "apolitical" because they easily end up being conservative (thus political), for the simple reason than preventing discussion favours political immobility and eventually conservativism.

I therefore welcome any article about digital rights and the politics of free and open source software.

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Mar 31, 2023 11:21 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

"political" is having a view on something, basically.

"Political" on the other hand, is joining with other people to actively do something about it.

Both can be good, both can be bad, ...

Cheers,
Wol

Rebecca Giblin on chokepoint capitalism

Posted Apr 6, 2023 9:08 UTC (Thu) by davidgerard (guest, #100304) [Link]

> political activism campaigns

good thing that Free Software never had anything to do with any sort of political campaign then

wait,


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