PyTorch and the PyPI supply chain [LWN.net]

PyTorch and the PyPI supply chain

Posted Jan 12, 2023 7:12 UTC (Thu) by maniax (subscriber, #4509)
In reply to: PyTorch and the PyPI supply chain by bof
Parent article: PyTorch and the PyPI supply chain

I have pretty much the same question... In my case, anything that's not maintained by the Linux distribution (which I tend to trust) is installed from external sources only if really really really needed, and mostly set to a very specific version with the idea that as soon as it reaches the distro, it'll be updated. OR, a copy is maintained internally in separate, internal repositories.

And this is not only a security question. Stuff "out there" is usually too bleeding edge to be reliable enough, and just fetching "the latest and greatest" is bound to break stuff.

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PyTorch and the PyPI supply chain

Posted Jan 12, 2023 8:28 UTC (Thu) by taladar (subscriber, #68407) [Link] (2 responses)

But stuff in the distros is just as bleeding edge, just bleeding edge backports that a person who is comparatively much less familiar with the code base developed and virtually nobody tested, usually with a lying version number on top of it.

Stability in a changing world is an illusion or in many cases even a deception sold to the gullible companies who desire it but don't understand how fast the world really moves in terms of software compatibility with the rest of the world (both in terms of protocols, data formats,... and in terms of legal and regulatory frameworks,...) and security issues.

PyTorch and the PyPI supply chain

Posted Jan 12, 2023 8:58 UTC (Thu) by ms (subscriber, #41272) [Link]

Exactly this. I choose to use NixOS, both at home, at work, and on some of my servers. I have zero belief anyone in that project is reviewing upstream code changes. The prevailing attitude is very much "if it compiles, that'll do". Tbqh, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's pretty much the same right across most distros, with the exception of some of the bigger commercial distros. And even then, I fully expect focus would be on the most critical packages - the kernel, libc, security libraries, xorg/wayland, mutt... - for obvious economic reasons.

I think everything really does just boil down to "you just have to trust other people". Yep, checksums, and version numbers, and all that goodness is great for verifying things don't change that you don't want to. I wouldn't want to be without that. But when I'm looking for a library to solve a particular problem, I look at the number of stars and forks, the rate of commits and who they're from, and the issue tracker, and that's my starting point for establishing trust. And I think it's a good thing: a society where the default behaviour is not to trust, not to give the benefit of the doubt, not to assume good, is not worth having.

PyTorch and the PyPI supply chain

Posted Jan 12, 2023 10:12 UTC (Thu) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link]

> But stuff in the distros is just as bleeding edge, just bleeding edge backports that a person who is comparatively much less familiar with the code base developed and virtually nobody tested, usually with a lying version number on top of it.

The code does not run in a vacuum. Distributions are much more familiar with the environment where the code will run,
and most distribution developers are also part of upstream. they also tend to have more user-aligned view than upstream. user-hostile upstream do exist.