The container orchestrator landscape

> K8 more or less mandates some kind of mapping at the IP and naming layers, so you usually have at a minimum some variation of a custom DNS server and a few hundred ip/nf/xdp rules or whatnot to implement routing. Docker's solution to the same problem was simply a convention for dumping network addresses into environment variables. No custom DNS, no networking nonsense.

Last I looked in depth, docker had a DNS server built in, too. Publishing IPs via env vars is a TERRIBLE solution for a bunch of reasons. DNS is better, but still has a lot of historical problems (and yeah, kube sort of tickles it wrong sometimes). DNS + VIP is much better, which is what k8s implements. Perfect? No. But pretty functional.

> No conversation of Kubernetes complexity is complete without mention of their obsolescent-by-design approach to API contracts. We've just entered a period where Ingresses went from marked beta, to stable, to about-to-be-deprecated by gateways.

I know of no plan to formally deprecate Ingress, and I would be the approver of that, so....FUD. Also, deprecate != EOL. We have made a public statement that we have NO PLANS to remove GA APIs. Perhaps some future circumstance could cause us to re-evaluate that, but for now, no.

> How many million lines of YAML toil across all k8s users needed trivial updates when the interface became stable

The long-beta of Ingress is a charge I will accept. That sucked and we have taken action to prevent that from ever happening again.

> and how many million more will be wasted by the time gateways are fashionable?

Nobody HAS to adopt gateway, but hopefully they will want to. It's a much more functional API than Ingress.

> How long will gateways survive? That's a meta-design problem, and a huge red flag.

APIs are forever. That's how long. Once it hits GA, we will keep supporting it. No FUD required.

> nothing you build on it can be expected to have any permanence.

We have a WHOLE LOT of evidence to the contrary. If you have specific issues, I'd love to hear them.

I don't claim kubernetes is perfect or fits every need, but you seem to have had a bad experience that is not quite the norm.