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DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 23, 2022 18:31 UTC (Thu) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325)
In reply to: DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering by mpldr
Parent article: DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Emphasis on "legal" team, not engineering team. A lot of engineers have very strange ideas about how the GPL works. For example, some engineers (presumably not including DeVault) think that just reading GPL'd code causes it to magically "infect" any code you write after that point, which is not even close to being true.* The GPL attaches to derivative works. "Derivative work" is a legal term of art, and the license does not attempt to offer a definition for it, because it's defined by the underlying copyright law. That's why you need a team of lawyers, not a team of engineers, to evaluate something like this. In particular, I think DeVault's emphasis on the model itself being a derivative work may be an unnecessary distraction, because:

1. It's not clear to me whether this claim is actually correct. A model is ultimately "just" a big bag of statistical information, and I honestly don't know whether (US) copyright law attaches to such things in the first place, but I'm skeptical (see e.g. Feist v. Rural).
2. It's not relevant. What matters is whether the output of the model is a derivative work of the original, which is a completely different legal question. Derivative works are not subject to some sort of magical "transitive property" that requires the model to also be a derivative work; you can argue that the output is derivative while taking no position on the status of the model itself. Similarly, you could argue that the output is *not* derivative, again taking no position on the model. The status of the model is not relevant to the question, unless you're going to allege an AGPL** violation.

* The kernel of truth here is that, in practice, clean-room engineering is often a good idea for the avoidance of legal risk. But there's nothing in either the GPL or the copyright statute that says you have to do it. Because that would be stupid. Imagine if novelists couldn't read books without running into copyright issues.
** The AGPL is the only widely-used license whose obligations attach on creation of a derivative work, rather than on distribution of that work. As far as I know, GitHub has no intention of distributing the model itself to anyone, so if you want to sue GitHub just for creating the model, you'd have to claim an AGPL violation specifically.


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DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 23, 2022 19:26 UTC (Thu) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link] (1 responses)

The legal issue will probably depend on the specific data you can extract from copilot, and obviously github will not help you to find out, and lawyers might not be sufficient.

Maybe there is some specific request that led copilot to return whole body of some GPL files. For example, by looking for certain patterns that occurs in a single software etc.
That would strengthen the case.

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 23, 2022 19:52 UTC (Thu) by Gaelan (guest, #145108) [Link]

Someone got Copilot to generate the fast inverse square root function from Quake III (which is GPL'd), "what the fuck?" comment and all: https://twitter.com/mitsuhiko/status/1410886329924194309

Amusingly, it also autocompleted a BSD license onto that code.

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 25, 2022 1:00 UTC (Sat) by gerdesj (subscriber, #5446) [Link] (2 responses)

"A lot of engineers have very strange ideas about how the GPL works."

Quite. Also, many putative authorities on the GPL seem to forget that there are many legal systems. If you are going to dive in and be authoritative on he GPL then you really should present an argument that works for all legal systems that the GPL attempts to work within. Quite a job!

Legal is as legal does: Some legal systems have a concept of "reasonable" or what a "reasonable" person would do and I think that is what the GPL is riffing off. There's also the concept of being able to "quietly enjoy [something]". I'm a Brit. so my local legal system informs my knowledge here. Not all legal systems work like that.

I think it is fair to say that we all have strange ideas about how the GPL works. There's no need to call out end users.

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 25, 2022 11:47 UTC (Sat) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> Quite. Also, many putative authorities on the GPL seem to forget that there are many legal systems.

And far too many authorities read what they want to see, not what's actually there. I've sure been guilty of that. I think my knowledge of the GPL now is pretty good, precisely because I've had plenty of people call me out on my mistakes.

How many "experts" have NOT been through that learning experience? The majority of them?

Cheers,
Wol

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 26, 2022 3:22 UTC (Sun) by gdt (subscriber, #6284) [Link]

The deeper point about differing copyright laws is not so much interpretation of copyright licenses, but the distinction between "fair use" and "fair dealing".

Copilot claims its actions are fair use, and therefore the license is irrelevant. However in fair dealing jurisdictions Copilot's use of the program source must either meet the copyright license or one of the black-letter list of allowed uses in the fair dealing exceptions of that juridiction's copyright law.

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 26, 2022 9:40 UTC (Sun) by gspr (subscriber, #91542) [Link] (4 responses)

> It's not clear to me whether this claim is actually correct. A model is ultimately "just" a big bag of statistical information, and I honestly don't know whether (US) copyright law attaches to such things in the first place, but I'm skeptical (see e.g. Feist v. Rural).

Surely it does apply in one extreme, namely that of a really good model! If I take a copyrighted picture and create a model that very accurately reproduces said picture, I don't think it's very unlikely that my model runs afoul of the original's copyright.

In the other extreme—that of a really terrible model—it probably doesn't, but we probably shouldn't write off the models in-between those extremes.

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 27, 2022 16:51 UTC (Mon) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (3 responses)

Are you talking about a real-world model - like you made an aircraft model from a photo of an aircraft? In that case it's a physical object and patent rules should apply, or design rules, and NOT copyright rules.

If, however, you're referring to a model like most people here are - computer science, otherwise known as maths - then equally copyright should NOT apply, because it's maths. Or "sweat of the brow". Or a whole other bunch of doctrines that lawyers do their best to mis-understand but that state quite clearly it is not copyrightable material.

Cheers,
Wol

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 28, 2022 1:26 UTC (Tue) by hummassa (guest, #307) [Link] (1 responses)

I will offer an informed alternative to your pov, Wol:

If a mathematical model produces as its output a perfect reproduction of an copyrightable and copyrighted work (something novel produced by the human mind), then said mathematical model is nothing but a copying apparatus. There is no difference between the neural model of Copilot and a big HD containing all the works it's seen, just well indexed. The output is just a copy of the copyrighted work, subject to the same protections under the laws and treaties.

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 28, 2022 8:00 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

(And to gspr)

Oh the joys of the ambiguity of English ...

As I read it "copyright attaches to the model" - in other words there is no copyright *in* the model. But if there is copyright in the *original*, then that applies *to* the model as well ...

I think we're talking at cross purposes ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

DeVault: GitHub Copilot and open source laundering

Posted Jun 28, 2022 6:37 UTC (Tue) by gspr (subscriber, #91542) [Link]

By this logic, unlicensed redistribution of copyrighted images, video and audio are fine as long as the material is recompressed. It's just math!

Clearly absurd.


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