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Per-file OOM badness

Per-file OOM badness

Posted Jun 3, 2022 5:23 UTC (Fri) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325)
In reply to: Per-file OOM badness by neilbrown
Parent article: Per-file OOM badness

Not all games are necessarily amenable to perfect autosaving, although I agree that it should be implemented where feasible. But I can think of quite a few games where it would either detract from the gameplay, or at the very least would provide minimal or no improvement over the status quo:

* Undertale (the save mechanic exists in-universe, and removing it would completely wreck the backstory).
* Outer Wilds (no traditional progression mechanics such as leveling up or collecting items; you progress by learning more about the world and its history, so there's nothing to save other than a log of your discoveries).
* Most visual novels (usually, they automatically track which bits you've seen and let you skip past those; saving is at best a convenience function in most cases).
* Most turn-based RPGs (saving in-battle would be a Bad Idea because battles typically have a lot of highly complicated state that the player needs to be reminded of when they resume the game - better to just restart the battle from scratch since it's probably only a few minutes long anyway).
* Most racing games (individual races are typically a few minutes long, it's just not worth it).
* Any game that you can lose, and that doesn't have permadeath (if an autosave happens right before the player loses, the game may become soft-locked, so *some* amount of manual save-loading is required to exist, or else the game has to be very conservative about when and where it autosaves, and either way, the human playing the game has to think about what has or has not been saved at any given time).

Finally, I feel obligated to point out that kids know perfectly well when they can and cannot save. Depending on their age/maturity, they are either deliberately choosing to enter a section of the game where saving is not supported, or they are failing to plan ahead. I don't presume to tell parents how to raise their children, but in either case, you could choose to use this as an object lesson, if you felt it appropriate. For older or more responsible/mature children, it might also help to give them a 10-minute warning, if feasible. But, obviously, it's up to you to decide what works for your kids and your situation.

(I suppose some people might argue that none of the above games ought to exist. I shudder to think of what a boring world that would be!)


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Per-file OOM badness

Posted Jun 3, 2022 5:46 UTC (Fri) by neilbrown (subscriber, #359) [Link]

> or they are failing to plan ahead

Yep, that's the one

> you could choose to use this as an object lesson

Indeed! And the lesson "the world is deliberately designed to manipulate your behaviour, to your own determent" can be a valuable one. Still annoying though.

Per-file OOM badness

Posted Jun 3, 2022 21:56 UTC (Fri) by bartoc (guest, #124262) [Link]

In fairness you _can_ usually save in outer wilds by finding some way to kill yourself :D

Per-file OOM badness

Posted Jun 8, 2022 14:56 UTC (Wed) by azumanga (subscriber, #90158) [Link] (2 responses)

One solution to (I think) all the autosaving issues you raised, which would still handle OOM / crash / reboots is autosaves which are constantly updated and cannot be copied.

This means you can't use the saves to retry, just pick up where you left off. To me that doesn't feel like it would upset any of the games you discuss, any more than just "leaving them paused overnight" (which I used to do on consoles back in my youth).

Per-file OOM badness

Posted Jun 8, 2022 16:13 UTC (Wed) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link] (1 responses)

> autosaves which are constantly updated and cannot be copied

Using some sort of hardware-backed DRM, presumably? Or a mandatory connection to a server? Neither is really acceptable in a single-player game, but I don't see how you could otherwise prevent someone from killing the program to simulate a crash and then making a backup copy of the save—or perhaps the entire game if necessary—which could be restored at will to revert back to that point.

Per-file OOM badness

Posted Jun 8, 2022 16:57 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Pause the game, snapshot your VM, and continue. Completely out of the game's hand, and you've just saved a checkpoint.

Cheers,
Wol


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