DeVault: Announcing the Hare programming language
DeVault: Announcing the Hare programming language
Posted May 5, 2022 13:38 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252)In reply to: DeVault: Announcing the Hare programming language by foom
Parent article: DeVault: Announcing the Hare programming language
> That certainly doesn't actually describe anyone involved, as I suspect you're well aware.
This describes the majority of people I have talked with. I was unable to find anyone who have honestly claimed that careful reading the standard is enough to write the code which wouldn't violate provenance rules.
On the contrary: people expressed regret or, in many cases, anger about the fact that standard doesn't enable usage of provenance rules by the compilers, yet none claimed that they follow from the existing standard.
If the standard is the treaty between compiler and programmer then it was deliberate breakage of the treaty. Worse: it placed the users of the compiler at a serious disadvantage. How are they supposed to follow the rules which don't exist? Especially if even people who are yet to present these rules agree that they are really complex and convoluted?
And when people, horrified, asked for the -fno-provenance option? They got answer: although provenance is not defined by either standard, it is a real and valid emergent property that every compiler vendor ever agrees on.
Sorry, but if that is not an act of sabotage, then I don't know what is. And people who are doing the sabotage are called saboteours.
> I believe what you actually mean is that you disagree strongly with some of the decisions made, and consider them to have had harmful effects.No. It's not about me agreeing with something or disagreeing with something.
> Say that, not "saboteurs".Let me summarize what happened:
- Compiler developers have found out that certain parts of the standard allow language users to write certain questionable programs which are hard to optimize.
- After that was acknowledged they haven't changed the standard yet decided to break these standard-compliant programs.
- They haven't mentioned that fact in the release notes and spent no efforts to deliver that infortmation to users in any way.
- They also refused to offer any options which would allow one to use the questionable constructs.
- Naturally they also refuse to enable such options when you compile programs with
-std=c89(variant of the C standard which does not include any provisions for provenance whatsoever).
Sorry, but when you knowingly break standards-compliant programs and refuse to support them in any shape or form — that's an act of sabotage.
