the default desktop [LWN.net]

the default desktop

Posted Feb 19, 2022 8:55 UTC (Sat) by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
In reply to: the default desktop by ovitters
Parent article: McGovern: Handing over

> default for various distributions as that GNOME did and does something right.

Or, and this appears to be the reality, the FSF took a big dislike to KDE, the only real big competitor in the space, and while you can't really call it anti-competitive, by picking its chosen winners and losers, the FSF distorted the competition. Plus, wasn't Gnome tied up with FSF in a direct attempt to push KDE out?

Cheers,
Wol

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the default desktop

Posted Feb 19, 2022 13:43 UTC (Sat) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (7 responses)

> Or, and this appears to be the reality, the FSF took a big dislike to KDE, the only real big competitor in the space

FSF’s whole existence is about free software and Qt originally wasn’t. The licensing itself was more of the reason for distributions to exclude KDE in the distant past. There were plenty of other factors including accessibility and usability of GNOME 2 that played a role after.

the default desktop

Posted Feb 19, 2022 14:59 UTC (Sat) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (6 responses)

Well, it was probably Gnome2 I took a dislike to, because it WASN'T USABLE.

The problem, when people go on about usability, is what they really mean is "does it feel familiar/comfortable". Seeing as my brain seems to be wired differently from the majority, I find their choice of software a nightmare to use ...

Cheers,
Wol

the default desktop

Posted Feb 19, 2022 15:09 UTC (Sat) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (4 responses)

> Well, it was probably Gnome2 I took a dislike to, because it WASN'T USABLE.

No need to shout. I was referring to the usability improvements funded by Sun at that time.

the default desktop

Posted Feb 20, 2022 12:33 UTC (Sun) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (3 responses)

You miss the point. What is usable to one person, is painful in the extreme to someone else.

I took to WordPerfect like a duck to water - I had a choice of several word processors, and when WP turned up it just elbowed the other two out no contest.

Then the company standardised on Word, and oh was it painful. It still is, but unfortunately everything is now word clones, so the entire space is a personal nightmare.

The problem with "usability" in the word processor space, is it's intended to let managers pretend they are qualified typists. And from all the complaints I hear, Gnome's usability is very similiar ...

When all you can buy is DIY hammers, the professional who knows how to use a nailgun is at a severe disadvantage ...

Cheers,
Wol

the default desktop

Posted Feb 20, 2022 12:48 UTC (Sun) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (2 responses)

> You miss the point. What is usable to one person, is painful in the extreme to someone else.

I understand that but it is irrelevant to how defaults get picked by distributions. They have to pick a default anyway for various components, so that's going to get driven by several factors (licensing, accessibility, usability etc). If multiple distributions pick a default, it is safe to say those do work for a lot of people regardless of your personal preferences.

the default desktop

Posted Feb 20, 2022 13:20 UTC (Sun) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link] (1 responses)

Debian doesn't have a fixed default - but it happens that GNOME is at the top of the list in tasksel. Many of the smaller lighter weight desktops eventually end up pulling in some component or other from a larger desktop at some point as you add your favourite program.

It's not a zero sum game: in the long term, no desktop "wins" as there's enough space for several desktops, many use cases.
The caveat is that there aren't enough developers to go round - many attractive desktops in smaller distributions which draw people to them are, in fact, a reskinning of something like Ubuntu as the upstream. My colleagues who say "I'd like to get into Linux but there are hundreds of different Linuxes" miss this point and stay on Windows because it's more consistent for them.

What does make it difficult is when a major vendor has more or less abandoned the workstation because they focus on servers or cloud components. That just means that everyone uses Windows by default in that environment.

the default desktop

Posted Feb 20, 2022 13:39 UTC (Sun) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

> That just means that everyone uses Windows by default in that environment.

Nope, this hasn't been true for a very long time. There is Chromebook or Macs or virtual desktops and so forth. There are plenty of alternatives for different form factors and use cases even if you discard traditional Linux distros.

the default desktop

Posted Mar 27, 2022 6:59 UTC (Sun) by milesrout (subscriber, #126894) [Link]

Gnome2 was the most normal, easy-to-use desktop environment ever to exist on the Linux desktop for a normal person used to normal floating window managers.

Personally I prefer tiling window managers and use dwm. But for my parents, for normal people? Gnome 2 was great.