Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution [LWN.net]

Remember the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution? They are the folks who put out the "Linux may help terrorists" press release almost exactly two years ago. They are at it again with this strange release hyping an upcoming book. "In one of the few extensive and critical studies on the source of open source code, Kenneth Brown, president of AdTI, traces the free software movement over three decades -- from its romantic but questionable beginnings, through its evolution to a commercial effort that draws on unpaid contributions from thousands of programmers. Among other points, the study directly challenges Linus Torvalds' claim to be the inventor of Linux." They promise excerpts from the book on May 20.

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 17, 2004 13:04 UTC (Mon) by maney (subscriber, #12630) [Link]

Weird with a beard! Do you suppose they're being sponsored by scoundrels this time? If so, they seem to be about a year late in coming to the party...

Among other points, the study directly challenges Linus Torvalds' claim to be the inventor of Linux.
Do I hear the sound of someone who has just discovered Minix and doesn't have one iota of understanding about how Linus was revolting against its design, not copying it? Maybe.

Brown suggests the invention of Unix is an integral part of the Linux story.
News flash! The invention of writing is an integral part of the Brown story. You read it here first!

For almost thirty years, programmers have tried to build a Unix-like system and couldn't.
Oops, guess it wasn't Minix after all. Just the same old trash about how the API, as openly published time and again over the years, is still a trade secret. I was so hoping they had a new flavor of Kool-Aid, but no.

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 17, 2004 13:23 UTC (Mon) by dcoutts (subscriber, #5387) [Link]

This seems fairly easy to sort out, just pull out a copy of linux 0.0.1. Linus himself notes that it is the work of a young programmer, is full of poor coding practice and certianly not comparable in scope or quality to version of unix of the same period.

Then we just trace each version and note that it improves *gradually* over the years into a kernel that is certianly comparable in scope and quality of today's comercial unix flavours.

Linux is obviously inspired by unix. Some complain that Linux is 'terribly derivitave' (mainly when promoting the HURD) but that is meant in a derivitive ideas sense, not in the copyright sense.

Perhaps this is all that AdTI is alleging? :-)

See previous LWN material on the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 17, 2004 13:45 UTC (Mon) by dwheeler (guest, #1216) [Link] (2 responses)

LWN has previously done a story on the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution.

See previous LWN material on the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 17, 2004 13:55 UTC (Mon) by nathan (subscriber, #3559) [Link] (1 responses)

The 'true scotsman' argument os over here -> http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#scots,

I trust Alexis doh! Tocqueville will be telling security agencies that they should use neither English nor the roman alphabet, as both are widely distributed.

See previous LWN material on the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 17, 2004 15:41 UTC (Mon) by jre (guest, #2807) [Link]

So -- you're implying that true patriots never put sugar on their porridge?
A careful reading reveals otherwise:

True patriots will come to grips with the reality that really bad people want more information about our nation's computer systems; and giving bad people indiscreetly any information about our systems is reckless.

Clearly, Mr. Brown has allowed (or at least not ruled out) that I can still be be a true patriot if I have come to grips with the aforementioned reality about really bad people and giving them indiscreetly any information about our systems, but have not yet come to grips with a reality also involving bad people and information, but in which that information is given to the bad people discreetly!

Let's have a poll

Posted May 17, 2004 14:30 UTC (Mon) by huysmans (guest, #14315) [Link] (1 responses)

LWN doesn't do polls, does it? Too bad, we could have one about who is the secret originator of linux ;)

Perhaps they think it's Alexis de Tocqueville...

Let's have a poll

Posted May 17, 2004 15:03 UTC (Mon) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link]

Perhaps they think it's Alexis de Tocqueville...

The real de Tocqueville is probably spinning in his grave, on hearing about that garbage written in his name....

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 17, 2004 17:29 UTC (Mon) by hans (guest, #148) [Link] (3 responses)

Brown's account is based on extensive interviews with more than two dozen leading technologists in the United States, Europe, and Australia, including Richard Stallman, Dennis Ritchie, and Andrew Tanenbaum.

This begs the question: Did they interview Linus? This press release has the flavor of an historical scandal, but it's not as if Linus has been dead for two hundred years or something. Couldn't they have just asked him if they thought something was fishy about Linux's origin?

Asking Linus

Posted May 17, 2004 17:58 UTC (Mon) by AnswerGuy (guest, #1256) [Link]

If one is going to impugn the honesty of someone why would one bother to ask them directly? Once you've called someone's integrity and honesty to question then you have no reason to trust their answers to any questions you pose.

However the issue is moot. Linus wrote the original code. Many contributed to it over the years (perhaps a couple thousand). Some among them may have contributed code of dubious provenance and some small amount of that may have managed to leak into Linux. This missive from de Toqueville is unconcerned with significance or truth --- it seems to be simple sensationalism.

JimD

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 17, 2004 19:17 UTC (Mon) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

Given the people he mentions, he will no doubt quote lots of people as saying that Linux is just a clone of Unix. Certainly Ritchie or Stallman would say that, and Linus wouldn't argue much. The point is, though, that Posix is a standard, and making a free implementation of it is completely legitimate.

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 21, 2004 17:30 UTC (Fri) by jmshh (guest, #8257) [Link]

At least Andrew Tanenbaum has something to say about the interview, and it explains some of the weirdness.

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 18, 2004 6:49 UTC (Tue) by sitaram (guest, #5959) [Link] (1 responses)

did they get slashdotted or something? www.adti.net is down, and any URL in the domain shows this:

Site Temporarily Disabled

This site has been temporarily disabled. If you are the owner of the site, please contact customer care.

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 18, 2004 12:38 UTC (Tue) by 87C751 (guest, #11362) [Link]

It works for me, but I think Linus had a point. Every story on that front page looks like a bad Onion ripoff.

Linus confesses it's true

Posted May 18, 2004 7:17 UTC (Tue) by hingo (guest, #14792) [Link]

LinuxWorld Exclusive: Linus Torvalds Makes Startling Admission, Discloses *Real* Fathers of Linux

Weird stuff from Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Posted May 21, 2004 6:27 UTC (Fri) by a_hippie (guest, #34) [Link]

Guess I need to be a paid member of adti if I wanted to read that link.
If you click on it now, you have to play "guess the password" . . Wasn't
like it was important or whatever. . . :)

Wishing you well.