Firefox 70 released [LWN.net]

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 23, 2019 6:06 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582)
In reply to: Firefox 70 released by flussence
Parent article: Firefox 70 released

Mozilla has valid concerns about third-party extensions loading third-party code -- but in this case they should just adopt the translation extension and maintain it themselves! It is probably the single most useful thing in Chrome that is not in Firefox.

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Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 23, 2019 8:19 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (10 responses)

Firefox is working on an offline translator that will run entirely on a local computer.

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 23, 2019 9:01 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (9 responses)

Catching up to Google's standard would be rather challenging -- if they do I'll be impressed. Google's deep-net stuff has dramatically improved their translations in recent years. They even handle Indian languages quite well these days, which have a very different grammar and many quirks in declension, conjugation, word-combination, etc. I would think even Google can't do an offline translate with similar quality.

The point is, it is a useful extension. Google is offering it for free. Integrating it into Firefox doesn't seem any worse than integrating Google Search into Firefox (as an option).

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 23, 2019 9:13 UTC (Wed) by roc (subscriber, #30627) [Link] (5 responses)

I think if Mozilla could have integrated Google Translate into Firefox, they would have. I suspect Google would ask them to pay a lot of money for that API key.

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 25, 2019 9:54 UTC (Fri) by kilobyte (subscriber, #108024) [Link] (4 responses)

They made an OFF-LINE translator, which is worlds better. Besides working without network, it ensures privacy -- Google reads every single document you want translated.

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 25, 2019 10:41 UTC (Fri) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (3 responses)

It is not offline. The very name DeepL suggests a deep network at their end.

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 25, 2019 11:33 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (2 responses)

> It is not offline. The very name DeepL suggests a deep network at their end.

You are incorrect. They are going to be using Bergamot

https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-to-get-page-transla...

"Instead of relying on cloud-based text translation services (like Google Translate, Bing Translator, or Yandex.Translate), Firefox will use a client-side, machine learning-based translation library."

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 25, 2019 11:41 UTC (Fri) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (1 responses)

Sorry, misread the thread context. I thought you were talking about DeepL (referred to elsewhere) and whether it's better than Google Translate (debatable). But good offline translation is going to be... a challenge.

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 26, 2019 23:43 UTC (Sat) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

There is Apertium for open source offline translation, but it isn't using ML and is not as anywhere near as good as Google/etc

https://www.apertium.org/

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 23, 2019 14:21 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (2 responses)

There was discussion on Hacker News[1] about how Google Translate has fallen behind in numerous ways. Maybe it's seen as good as long as one endpoint is English rather than doing non-English to non-English translation?

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21321541

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 25, 2019 7:18 UTC (Fri) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link] (1 responses)

That's not surprising. Anything at Google that doesn't contribute to their main business of paperclip-maximizing mass surveillance and human manipulation is usually killed off or left to bitrot. The translate service, being a primarily on-demand thing, wasn't spared.

Firefox 70 released

Posted Oct 25, 2019 8:35 UTC (Fri) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

The link in the GP didn't say Google had become worse, only that another (DeepL) was better. I wasn't aware of DeepL -- thanks for that.

I gave both a quick shot at a passage from today's Le Monde. Here are the results. While DeepL is impressive, it's certainly not better than Google: it translates l'engin as "the aircraft" and uses the odd (if not ungrammatical) phrase "rescued the passengers while injured himself". DeepL also translates "choc" to "shock" rather than "impact" which is more appropriate. On the other hand, Google mangles the next line to "This is what says, Friday, October 25, the management of the company", which DeepL gets correct. I'd call it a toss.

And Google is the only realistic choice for non-western languages. But of course I hope DeepL and others catch up: we need competition.

Original:
La SNCF va « renforcer les équipements d’alerte radio en cas de choc important » pour les autorails grande capacité (AGC). C’est ce que dit, vendredi 25 octobre, la direction de la société dans un courrier accompagnant un rapport interne sur l’accident survenu mercredi 16 octobre, quand un TER reliant Charleville-Mézières à Reims a percuté un convoi routier exceptionnel coincé sur un passage à niveau. Onze personnes avaient été blessées. Le conducteur, qui a porté secours aux passagers alors qu’il était lui-même blessé, était le seul agent SNCF à bord du train. La collision a par ailleurs endommagé des organes d’alerte essentiels de l’engin.

Google:
SNCF will "reinforce radio warning equipment in the event of a major impact" for high-capacity railcars (MCO). This is what says, Friday, October 25, the management of the company in a letter accompanying an internal report on the accident occurred Wednesday, October 16, when a TER connecting Charleville-Mézières to Reims hit an exceptional road convoy stuck on a Railroad Crossing. Eleven people were injured. The driver, who rescued passengers while he himself was injured, was the only SNCF agent on the train. The collision also damaged vital warning devices of the machine.

DeepL:
SNCF will "reinforce the radio alert equipment in the event of a major shock" for high-capacity railcars (AGC). This is what the company's management said on Friday, October 25, in a letter accompanying an internal report on the accident that occurred on Wednesday, October 16, when a TER linking Charleville-Mézières to Reims struck an exceptional road convoy stuck on a level crossing. Eleven people were injured. The driver, who rescued the passengers while injured himself, was the only SNCF agent on board the train. The collision also damaged essential warning devices of the aircraft.