Who controls glibc? [LWN.net]

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 8, 2018 7:50 UTC (Tue) by lkundrak (subscriber, #43452)
In reply to: Who controls glibc? by mjg59
Parent article: Who controls glibc?

If I read it correctly, the joke is basically a statement in support of abortion rights. If anything, wouldn't the "strong emotional connotations" be likely to be positive in the first place?

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Who controls glibc?

Posted May 8, 2018 8:37 UTC (Tue) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (11 responses)

For someone who's had an abortion, in a society that repeatedly tells people that doing so is shameful? I know multiple people who are strongly pro abortion rights but also very sensitive to jokes that reference them due to their own personal experiences.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 8, 2018 18:29 UTC (Tue) by spacemachine (guest, #124210) [Link] (1 responses)

Are they programmers?

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 8, 2018 18:32 UTC (Tue) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

Yes, they are - but remember that people often develop into programmers after they've already been exposed to a project, and their perception then may still influence their desire to contribute later.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 17, 2018 21:53 UTC (Thu) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (8 responses)

> For someone who's had an abortion, in a society that repeatedly tells people that doing so is shameful?
So you're saying that telling these people (in a humorous form) that they *should* have the right to get an abortion (and hence, implicitly, that it was wrong of other people to shame them for it) is also somehow offensive? What kind of logic is that?!

Besides, the world is not a safe space. If you're an adult and you can't handle a joke, go see a therapist.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 17, 2018 22:57 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (7 responses)

Where did I say it was offensive?

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 18, 2018 6:29 UTC (Fri) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (6 responses)

The point is: if somebody can't handle this sort of joke, they are not human beings capable of functioning in a free society. A society where you can't make political jokes - whether it's because you'll be locked up like in the country I was born in, or because you risk societal death for triggering some crybaby - is not a free society. The problem is that by purging this kind of silly little thing you're establishing an atmosphere that will prevent people from making jokes (or even serious statements) that would actually *not* affect anyone negatively out of sheer fear that they might and that they'll be judged for that.

In fact I would argue that that is already happening in the US, especially on campus. And you have yet to prove that the joke has *actually* negatively impacted anyone.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 18, 2018 6:59 UTC (Fri) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

Ok so you're arguing against something that I didn't actually say

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 18, 2018 7:15 UTC (Fri) by karkhaz (subscriber, #99844) [Link] (4 responses)

> A society where you can't make political jokes - whether it's because you'll be locked up like in the country I was born in, or because you risk societal death for triggering some crybaby

Nobody suggested either of the above consequences happen to rms. Although I recall various other incidents that I suppose you're referring to, where a developer was pilloried for making offensive comments, this is not one of them. The only "punishment" here is the removal of the joke from the manual.

> by purging this kind of silly little thing you're establishing an atmosphere that will prevent people from making jokes

In this case, I don't see much evidence that anybody is calling for censorship of abortion jokes anywhere outside the technical reference. This was a patch to remove the joke from the manual, not a mandate to prevent rms from making these jokes on his own spare time.

> The point is: if somebody can't handle this sort of joke

The strongest argument I've heard from removing this from the manual isn't that some people cannot "handle" the joke, that it is offensive, or anything of the sort. Rather, it's a totally inappropriate comment to have in a technical manual.

(Somewhat contrived) analogy: suppose that in the documentation for posix_spawn, rms had written a snarky cartouche about his favourite restaurant for eating caviar. Totally uncontroversial, nobody gets offended. But the comment ought to be removed on exactly the same grounds as the abortion one: it doesn't belong in a technical manual, and the vast majority of readers didn't ask to be belaboured with rms's sense of humor.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 18, 2018 9:35 UTC (Fri) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (3 responses)

> Rather, it's a totally inappropriate comment to have in a technical manual.
I disagree with that notion. I don't see anything wrong with having a joke in a technical manual.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 18, 2018 23:10 UTC (Fri) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (2 responses)

I don't have a problem with jokes in a technical manual but I prefer it if the jokes are actually funny.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 19, 2018 9:17 UTC (Sat) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (1 responses)

OK, suppose there was an absolutely hilarious joke about US abortion laws in the glibc manual. Would you support that?

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 19, 2018 10:26 UTC (Sat) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

OK, let me rephrase that. I have no problem with jokes in a technical manual as long as the jokes are actually funny and are about the technical subject matter at hand.

This would exclude jokes about US abortion laws, however hilarious, in the glibc manual because the connection – via the word “abort” – is pretty tenuous at best and may not even work in translation (both because the target language may not use the same vocabulary, and because the legal situation around abortion may be different so the “joke” is not funny at all). It would also exclude political propaganda camouflaging as lame jokes in general. The reason for this is that when you're trying to be entertaining in a technical manual, it is best to do that in a way that, as far as possible, all readers of the manual will find enjoyable, not just the ones who happen to agree with your politics.