|
|
Log in / Subscribe / Register

Who controls glibc?

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 7, 2018 22:15 UTC (Mon) by k8to (guest, #15413)
In reply to: Who controls glibc? by siddhesh
Parent article: Who controls glibc?

A bit off topic, but my 2 cents about consensus:

In the Quaker tradition of consensus decision making, it's a matter of making a best effort to find what the group as a whole wants.

In that tradition it's considered a mistake to try to build a consensus without hearing from at least most of the members. However, it's also built around the idea that people who are going to participate essentially opt into discussion in certain areas, and have explicitly taken on the duty of participating, even when it's time consuming and slow, which are par for the course in classic consensus decision making. Essentially, everyone is given time to speak about what they think and what they feel, and when the turn comes to you, you can't just pass or stay silent. It would be difficult to adapt this fully to an online medium. Functioning well, this can include outcomes such as participants deciding that they really are too far outside the group needs/wants to be part of the decision and essentially pulling up their stake. It can also include the group as a whole working hard to understand the views and opinions of one who sees it quite differently.

In the general modern interpretation of consensus decision making, participants are often far less committed to fully participate, and would rather simply ignore issues that are insufficiently important to them, or have a poor ratio of importance to expected annoyance. In such an environment, I really don't see what you can do besides try to remember that each participant's views should be given real consideration, and at the same time that it is important and necessary to find the outcome/view/decision that best represents the group overall. Even that is hard to instill in a free assocation of developers, and I think it's generally not perceived that this mode of thinking is important and possibly essential.

In short, consensus is hard. We're not really trained to do it. Most of us don't really fully appreciate the components to achieve it. Expecting strong consensus on mailing lists is perhaps a foolish pursuit. But considering how things are playing out here, I do wish more of the participants valued those principles.


to post comments

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 8, 2018 18:02 UTC (Tue) by lamby (subscriber, #42621) [Link] (2 responses)

Where can I learn more about the Quaker model vs. the "modern" model?

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 9, 2018 3:23 UTC (Wed) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link]

I don't know. It's just based on personal experiences in my life of what people perceive the word to mean among differing groups.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 9, 2018 11:28 UTC (Wed) by TheIllustriousYou (guest, #124302) [Link]

If you have a Quaker meetinghouse near you, you might pay a visit and ask them. I know a few; I'll ask if any can help you learn more.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 8, 2018 18:47 UTC (Tue) by ClaudeRubinson (subscriber, #11921) [Link] (4 responses)

The Quaker decision-making process seeks to discern God's will (not the group's). It is this belief that a truth exists outside of the decision-making body that distinguishes it from conventional (secular) decision-making processes, including consensus and voting.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 9, 2018 3:22 UTC (Wed) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link] (3 responses)

This is slightly hair-splitting, because Friends believe there is that of good within people. In practice, there are many decisions made within a monthly meeting which are not viewed by most people as having a significant spiritual dimension.

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 9, 2018 3:22 UTC (Wed) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link]

Err, "that of god".

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 9, 2018 16:53 UTC (Wed) by ClaudeRubinson (subscriber, #11921) [Link] (1 responses)

Quaker process seeks to suppress individual egos and preferences in search of an external truth that exists beyond and apart from the individuals involved. Secular consensus making, on the other hand, seeks to accommodate and encompass the different preferences, viewpoints, etc by asking "What can we all agree on?" This is precisely what makes arriving at consensus so challenging. (The different goals is also one reason why Quaker decision-making practices generally don't work well in a secular context.)

Who controls glibc?

Posted May 9, 2018 17:32 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

Entirely correct. My religion tells me that the only true way to consensus is personal combat with edged or blunt weapons.

It's entirely unbiased and fair - there's no nonsense with differing interpretations of "scripture" or arguments about its application.

You either win and vanquish your foes or lose - it's absolute morality, imposed by the all-seeing eyes of gods. After all, they won't let you lose if you are correct, otherwise they won't be omnipotent and all-seeing.

I think that this kind of decision process should be universal.

/s


Copyright © 2026, Eklektix, Inc.
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds