The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
Posted Nov 4, 2017 18:53 UTC (Sat) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510)In reply to: The Frog and the Scorpion by corbet
Parent article: SFLC Files Bizarre Legal Action Against Its Former Client, Software Freedom Conservancy (Conservancy Blog)
It's a years-long sequence of events related to the VMware lawsuit.
2015: VMware suit filed in Germany and funded by SFC. LF retaliates by pulling funding of SFC. SFC responds with a fund drive and new supporters.
Early 2016: Karen Sandler merely states she might run for the Linux Foundation community board representative position. LF board meets in a panic and does away with the current community representative and the position.
Later 2016: Eben Moglen, president of SFLC, lobbies against GPL enforcement at LF events and elsewhere. FSF fires Moglen, who has been their general counsel for, oh, I think about 40 years. Richard and friends are reported to be heartbroken.
2017: SFLC files to take SFC's name.
Posted Nov 5, 2017 3:14 UTC (Sun)
by pr1268 (subscriber, #24648)
[Link] (2 responses)
This has to be one of the saddest posts I've read here on LWN... And to think that VMWare is at the heart of it all. Just what kind of wildly-addictive narcotic is VMWare, anyway, to persuade Moglen, Kuhn, SFLC, LF, et al over to the Dark Side™? Why not just come into compliance with the GPL (or whatever the 2015 suit demands) instead of dragging everyone into a (dare I say it) another SCOshow?
Posted Nov 5, 2017 3:24 UTC (Sun)
by jra (subscriber, #55261)
[Link] (1 responses)
Bradly is the President of the Software Freedom Conservancy, who is the defendant in this case, not the aggressor. He is not associated with the other organizations you mention.
Posted Nov 5, 2017 8:57 UTC (Sun)
by pr1268 (subscriber, #24648)
[Link]
Yes, I did mean Bradley Kuhn. And yes, that is an error. My apologies to LWN readers, and especially to Mr. Kuhn. Others' comments notwithstanding, whether this whole episode has its roots with the VMware suit *or* GPL enforcement "style", it has the potential to drive a large wedge in the Linux/FLOSS community. I, personally, would hate to see that happen.
Posted Nov 5, 2017 7:41 UTC (Sun)
by gregkh (subscriber, #8)
[Link] (10 responses)
As proof of just one thing wrong here, it was _I_ that requested the LF to stop funding the SFC based on the long email conversation that happened in 2016 about Linux kernel GPL enforcement "style", in public, for the whole world to see. It was only then that this happened, not before, and had nothing at all to do with vmware.
For your other claims here, well, I doubt that any of them are true either, as you seem to be reporting hearsay from others, which is never a trustworthy source :)
Posted Nov 5, 2017 7:59 UTC (Sun)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link]
- VMWare suit filed
You're a fellow of the Linux Foundation.
Posted Nov 5, 2017 14:07 UTC (Sun)
by jubal (subscriber, #67202)
[Link]
Posted Nov 5, 2017 16:31 UTC (Sun)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
[Link]
As I'm sure you agree this lawsuit seems quite insane, perhaps you can propose internally in the LF to make a statement threathening to withdraw funding from the SFLC if it doesn't stop wasting its resources on what could be little more than a personal vendetta? Makes both the conspiracy go away and might encourage the SFLC to think of more constructive ways to deal with any conflicts they might have with the SFC... At least it might encourage them to give some more public explanation behind the reasons for their actions. Justifying the use of their resources as well as those of the (sponsors of the) SFC would be very nice. Downey proposes it has to do with the new service the SFLC wants to offer, similar to what the SFC provides.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 1:51 UTC (Mon)
by BrucePerens (guest, #2510)
[Link] (5 responses)
Greg, Well, I don't think you meant to, but you just admitted to LF pulling funds over SFC's participation in enforcement. Pray tell, if VMware wasn't the enforcement which was at least implied in the discussion, which was it? I know the Busybox cases were over by then. I also want to know what part of their "style" is a problem? I have helped attorneys for GPL violators negotiate with SFC. They never asked any of my customers for any significant money, and walked away from one enforcement when they were convinced the violator was serious about coming into compliance, without even waiting for the violator to get done. If someone's going to enforce on your company, there was never a nicer enforcer than SFC.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 16:35 UTC (Mon)
by gregkh (subscriber, #8)
[Link] (4 responses)
That's not what I said at all, nor is what happened, please go read my statement again, and the huge email thread where this all happened, in public, over a year ago. Why is this a surprise to anyone? Everyone involved knows what happened and was ok with it.
The fact that you were making stuff up, when this is all public record already, is what I was correcting in your previous statements.
And this is way off-topic for this thread now, sorry for the noise to everyone else, I'll stop responding now as this is just digging up old history for no good reason other than people seem to love a nice fight and making up crazy conspiracy theories when it comes to other people and organizations.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 16:55 UTC (Mon)
by jubal (subscriber, #67202)
[Link] (2 responses)
Your timeline is off, cf. this helpful LWN link which puts the date of LF ending support for SFC to 2015, with SFC clearly thinking there's a causative link between the VMWare lawsuit the LF decision to cut off SFC. One would think that when you make harsh statements about other people making stuff up, you'd at least use some care when providing your version of reality.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 17:14 UTC (Mon)
by gregkh (subscriber, #8)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Nov 6, 2017 20:46 UTC (Mon)
by JWatZ (guest, #114023)
[Link]
It had left the page as of the June 15, 2015 version: https://web.archive.org/web/20150615134453/http://sfconse...
It has remained on the page since Jan 18, 2016, up to the current time: http://web.archive.org/web/20171106204447/https://sfconse...
Which does seem ... confusing ... considering the multiple people claiming the LF doesn't support SFC any more... This does not seem to be supported, at least not by this page.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 17:39 UTC (Mon)
by spaetz (guest, #32870)
[Link]
Ahem, the SFC sued the SFC now, so learning about the causes and reasons is very much of relevance, IMHO. And it is not like 2016 was ages ago. I hate fights between stakeholders and proponents of floss and would love to see the put to rest. Learning about what ongoing law suits be about is a necessary evil, though.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 17:29 UTC (Mon)
by spaetz (guest, #32870)
[Link]
Dear Greg, calling Bruce Perens random people is strong. You might like him or not, but he is not random and his oldishbaccount here shows it is really him, not some impersonator.
As for you asking to revoke funding for the SFC, Bruce translation of "LF retaliates by pulling funding of SFC." seems pretty much correct even after reading your reply.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 7:05 UTC (Mon)
by if.gnu.linux (guest, #88877)
[Link] (2 responses)
As end user of a GNU/Linux distribution, I am glad that there are people like Bradley Khun in our community.
[1] https://lwn.net/Articles/705416/
P.S.: My native language is not English.
Posted Nov 6, 2017 22:39 UTC (Mon)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link]
Which reminds me, good time to go donate to SFC.
Posted Nov 10, 2017 18:51 UTC (Fri)
by lsl (subscriber, #86508)
[Link]
A sad state of affairs, indeed
A sad state of affairs, indeed
A sad state of affairs, indeed
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
- SFC get involved
- You decry the SFC "style" of enforcing the GPL
- You get LF to pull SFC funding
Who pays your bills?
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
Date of funding stoppage
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion
[2] https://lwn.net/Articles/683345/
The Frog and the Scorpion
The Frog and the Scorpion