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Culture-relativity

Culture-relativity

Posted Sep 8, 2017 11:46 UTC (Fri) by cjwatson (subscriber, #7322)
In reply to: Culture-relativity by NAR
Parent article: Finding driver bugs with DR. CHECKER

That's used in at least UK English too. An "MD" postnominal suffix might be used if somebody really wants to make it absolutely clear what their doctorate is in, but that would be a pretty formal use. You'd pretty much always use prenominal "Dr." if you're addressing somebody, for instance.

I believe that US English has different cultural norms and a wider range of practitioners are entitled to use prenominal "Dr.", so it's more common to use "MD" to disambiguate, but people would still know what "Dr." means.

(This is leaving aside weird historical quirks like the way that consultant surgeons in the UK go by Mr./Ms./etc. rather than Dr. even though they may well have an MD ...)


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Culture-relativity

Posted Sep 10, 2017 15:28 UTC (Sun) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (2 responses)

> I believe that US English has different cultural norms and a wider range of practitioners are entitled to use prenominal "Dr.",...

Sounds like Germany; probably came with German migrants. It feels much rarer in the US though.

(from another sub-thread)
> In Germany the medical doctorate (“Dr. med.”) is lightweight compared to a “real” research doctorate like the ones you would obtain in physics, chemistry, or mathematics – to a point where in international comparisons it is considered mostly equivalent to a master's degree in science.

Same in France, with the difference that "docteur" refers to a medical doctor 99.99% of the time. Other docteurs never use their title outside work (and not much even there) so the "medical" adjective is not needed and never used. To resolve the 0.01% ambiguity, French has instead a... shorter, single word for Medical Doctor: "médecin"!? Go figure.

Culture-relativity

Posted Sep 10, 2017 23:51 UTC (Sun) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (1 responses)

Same in France, with the difference that "docteur" refers to a medical doctor 99.99% of the time. Other docteurs never use their title outside work (and not much even there) so the "medical" adjective is not needed and never used. To resolve the 0.01% ambiguity, French has instead a... shorter, single word for Medical Doctor: "médecin"!? Go figure.

In Germany, not all practicing physicians actually have medical doctorates (it's not required; what is required to be allowed to see patients is an official government-controlled exam). In everyday usage, however, even the non-doctors are still often addressed by their patients as “Herr Doktor” or “Frau Doktor” as a courtesy, simply because the notion that “physician = doctorate” is pretty deeply ingrained in the population.

Incidentally somebody mentioned that in the UK, physicians go by “Doctor XYZ” except that when they qualify as surgeons they revert to “Mr. /Mrs./… XYZ”. This is because way back when, medicine and surgery were completely different disciplines. Actual physicians weren't keen on the bloody business of surgery, while surgery, especially wartime surgery, was usually undertaken by barbers (presumably because they had sharp knives to hand). Physicians, who in spite of the limited scope of pre-scientific medicine were usually university-trained professionals, used to look down on surgeons, who were mere tradesmen – glorified barbers – who had gone through an apprenticeship.

Culture-relativity

Posted Sep 14, 2017 8:30 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

And most modern medical doctors aren't actually legally entitled to use the "Dr."

There was a major fuss some years back at the East Kent Hospital in Canterbury. The administrators tried to pass an edict saying "you can only call yourself Doctor if you're a medical doctor". It very rapidly got dropped - the Ph.D's on staff said "hang on a sec, we have a *legal* entitlement* to use 'Dr', medical people don't. You try and stop us using it, we'll get the courts to stop the medical people from using it".

And one of my friends, when she was a student doctor, commented on the confusion caused by one of her fellow students, who was a Ph.D.

It dates back, as the previous comment says, to when Physicians *were* doctorally qualified. Today's medical doctors aren't Doctors, they're Apothecaries (chemists, ie pharmacists). Because they dispensed medicine, and provided medical advice to the majority of people who couldn't afford a Doctor's advice, they rose in status and acquired the honorific "doctor". One of my doctor friends joked about how doctors have an apprenticeship and are "tradespeople" not "professionals".

Cheers,
Wol


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