Normal Behavior vs. Our Higher Standards [LWN.net]

Normal Behavior vs. Our Higher Standards

Posted Aug 29, 2017 17:03 UTC (Tue) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642)
In reply to: Normal Behavior vs. Our Higher Standards by BrucePerens
Parent article: Patrick McHardy and copyright profiteering (Opensource.com)

Bruce Perens wrote:

We should also be aware that FSF itself has departed from the community standards for enforcement

Bruce, please don't make such accusations without citing any actual facts. Indeed, your comments are attacking a cartoon version of the Principles of Community-Oriented GPL Enforcement (which, BTW, the FSF co-drafted and co-published with Conservancy). The Principles do not say the things your post above says. The relevant point about receiving funds about putting compliance ahead of any monetary damages. Also, when charities like Conservancy and FSF do enforcement, you can see the full details of the funds on their 990s, which adds transparency.

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Normal Behavior vs. Our Higher Standards

Posted Aug 30, 2017 17:43 UTC (Wed) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510) [Link] (3 responses)

Bruce, please don't make such accusations without citing any actual facts.

How can I cite facts, Bradley? You have them and the community doesn't. I only have what official people have previously explained to me. Obviously, Bradley, you do have access to those facts, although you may be bound by court order not to release them. I believe the acceptance of seals on enforcement case documents as part of a settlement, preventing visibility to the community, is itself a departure from community standards. When enforcement is over, we should be able to see what was done. Note that Jacobsen accepted a smaller financial settlement in favor of allowing sunshine upon his case.

Also, look again before you accuse me of attacking anything, please. I am not at all attacking the community standards by saying they are higher than the norm and I don't undertstand how you came to that conclusion.

If you are saying that McHardy does not have a right to enforce as he has been, I would like to hear your rationale.

Normal Behavior vs. Our Higher Standards

Posted Aug 30, 2017 18:23 UTC (Wed) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642) [Link]

Bruce and I just talked about on the phone about this, but the facts are public on Conservancy's and FSF's website and I told Bruce where to find them.

Normal Behavior vs. Our Higher Standards

Posted Aug 30, 2017 18:34 UTC (Wed) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510) [Link] (1 responses)

I did the old-fashioned thing and called Bradley on the phone.

I overstated that FSF foregoes monetary settlement in favor of present compliance. They prioritize compliance over money.

As an aside, I am operating under an "I don't want your money" rule in my own enforcement, at least with companies that are willing to comply rather than go to court (which has been everyone so far).

There has been essentially no case law, their completed enforcement, with the exception of a defendant who went bankrupt and stopped responding, has been settlement rather than court ruling. Settlements are often sealed because the defendant will accept nothing else. Bradley agreed with my bemoaning the absence of case law. I remain uncomfortable that settlements are sealed and believe the community has a right to know. In some cases, this is regarding works in which I have authorship.

Bradley thinks I am off base on FSF v. Cisco but doesn't have the figures and claims that some people in responsible positions at the time might have misstated.. I will have to go through FSF's form 990 for that year.

Normal Behavior vs. Our Higher Standards

Posted Sep 4, 2017 20:58 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link]

Thanks for sharing guys! Your conversation was interesting ;-)