Security quotes of the week [LWN.net]

Security quotes of the week

Posted Oct 19, 2016 20:19 UTC (Wed) by Garak (guest, #99377)
In reply to: Security quotes of the week by farnz
Parent article: Security quotes of the week

While I disagree fundamentally with mathstuf, he's espousing a consistent libertarian position, where the NAP is the core principle, and freedom of speech is merely one way in which the NAP manifests; thus, for him, there is no contradiction - there is no core belief in freedom of speech, it's just something that naturally falls out, complete with the common sense limits, as a consequence of following a much more important principle.

However, if you're trying to say that freedom of speech is a right,

I think you misconstrue the debate. Nobody is arguing for freedom of speech as so much of a right that mobs can form and rule the countryside via a sufficient number of death threats. Nobody is arguing for that. That necessary and pedantic debate is very, very old. I'll admit that it would be legitimate to throw that same sentiment at RFC-Garak1, except that there, the debate I'm trying to have is only very very old in Internet Years. In human years, it's still fairly young IMHO.

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Security quotes of the week

Posted Oct 19, 2016 20:23 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (5 responses)

In which case, please define which definition of freedom of speech you're working to - under the NAP derived version, you don't have freedom of speech on the Internet, full-stop, as to do so would require that you forced someone else to carry your bits.

Security quotes of the week

Posted Oct 19, 2016 20:35 UTC (Wed) by Garak (guest, #99377) [Link] (4 responses)

please stop pretending like you are debating my points with me in good faith. You are trying to derail the debate down pedantic rabbit holes. I clearly have an above ground goal (to be able to run my own email server like Hillary Clinton without paying a lexus lane 'business class / server allowed' tax to my ISP)

Security quotes of the week

Posted Oct 19, 2016 21:29 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (2 responses)

You have a strange fixation on email servers, that's for sure. Never mind that you can get a month of VPS subscription for less than the cost of a latte.

But anyway, you seem to be under impression that freedom of speech entitles you to get heard. That's simply not true.

Security quotes of the week

Posted Oct 19, 2016 23:01 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> Never mind that you can get a month of VPS subscription for less than the cost of a latte.

In all fairness, a VPS beefy enough to handle proper spam filtering will cost about two lattes per month.

(Which in turn is costs less than the single static IP added on my "business-class" connection)

Meh. Comcast.

Security quotes of the week

Posted Oct 20, 2016 13:26 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

And how much did it cost for the hardware to defeat the DoS on Krebs's post?

My thing about rights is nice and simple - THERE AREN'T ANY. It's my DUTY to protect free speech for others, so I can get to enjoy it too.

So all these IoT botnets and stuff clearly fall foul :-)

At the end of the day we have a DUTY not to be malicious or negligent - everything else can flow from that.

Cheers,
Wol

Security quotes of the week

Posted Oct 20, 2016 9:41 UTC (Thu) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

I am debating in good faith - if all you're after is a fully Neutral Network, where you're not restricted from operating "servers" on your home line just because it's "residential" service, not "business" service, then say so. You've brought in a whole pile of deeply difficult issues (freedom of speech, abuse handling in the face of malicious actors) that I've got experience of from the hard side of the problem, and I'm discussing those in good faith.

I agree that "server" restrictions on "residential" lines are nonsense; not least because I have bought consumer devices that act in some senses as a server (games consoles can, as can my VoIP handset and my Slingbox), but which no residential provider would restrict due to the consumer blowback of restricting devices. However, that's entirely orthogonal to the issues you've brought into play of abuse handling and freedom of speech, which apply whether you run "servers" or not.