this is sad [LWN.net]

this is sad

Posted Jun 21, 2016 11:45 UTC (Tue) by hitmark (guest, #34609)
In reply to: this is sad by anselm
Parent article: Klumpp: A few words about the future of the Limba project

The Windows 10 thing has less to do with fear of upgrading, and more to do with people confusing telemetry with spying.

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this is sad

Posted Jun 21, 2016 15:44 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (8 responses)

And if I have to pay for internet access by the megabyte?

WHY do I have to have a computer that *insists* on phoning home and racking up bills, when I see absolutely no use whatsoever for the (lack of) value generated.

Cheers,
Wol

this is sad

Posted Jun 21, 2016 16:17 UTC (Tue) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link] (7 responses)

>WHY do I have to have a computer that *insists* on phoning home and racking up bills, when I see absolutely no use whatsoever for the (lack of) value generated.

If you have no use for those features, you might consider turning them off? As a Linux user, I'm sure you're used to the idea of changing the default settings to ones that you prefer.

[There are certain bits of telemetry that can't be turned off if you're using a Windows Insider build, since the entire purpose of those is to gather feedback.]

this is sad

Posted Jun 21, 2016 21:32 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (6 responses)

You can not turn off updates in Windows 10. Let me repeat, you can NOT turn off updates. It can be done through undocumented registry tweaks, but not through user interface.

Windows 10 tries to guess if you're on a metered connection by checking your IP address and doing a tracert (bypassing active VPN, but what's a security violation between friends?) to see if you're inside a mobile network. It usually works but sometimes it doesn't, for example when you're using VPN from your 4G-enabled OpenWRT box.

this is sad

Posted Jun 22, 2016 6:09 UTC (Wed) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link] (1 responses)

I'm sure they're first using more standard method, like watching for ANDROID_METERED (and equivalents for other OSes) stuffed into DHCP options.

this is sad

Posted Jun 22, 2016 6:12 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

Probably. Except I set up this access point myself on OpenWRT. And then a couple of Windows VMs easily ate my month's traffic allowance.

Grr..

BTW, thanks for the tip, I'll add this option to my config.

this is sad

Posted Jun 22, 2016 10:45 UTC (Wed) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link] (3 responses)

>You can not [easily] turn off updates in Windows 10.

Good. It shouldn't be possible for a clueless user to shoot themselves in the foot by doing something that's such a monumentally bad idea, but the option is available for people who seriously know what they're doing.

>Let me repeat, you can NOT turn off updates. It can be done through undocumented registry tweaks, but not through user interface.

It can be done via Group Policy, which is the standard UI for administrative settings that aren't appropriate for most users. For the home edition, I believe you can't use Group Policy but have to edit the registry directly - Group Policy is to a large extent a graphical front end for the registry that explains the settings and their available options (actually this is the case for much of the contents of Settings and the Control Panel). So using the home edition, you'd need to find documentation online on how to do this.

>Windows 10 tries to guess if you're on a metered connection by checking your IP address and doing a tracert (bypassing active VPN, but what's a security violation between friends?) to see if you're inside a mobile network

No, the option to choose whether a connection is metered is up to the user. By default it's a toggle that can only be set for wireless networks, though there are ways to set it for a wired connection that aren't exposed to the UI (and I think I remember reading that it was becoming standard in the next release, but I could be wrong about that). I agree that it's silly to make the assumption that wired connections won't be metered, but that's a very separate issue.

You might be thinking of Windows 10 Mobile? I've not used that so I don't know how it differs, but I can't find any reference to the behaviour you describe.

I find it so enervating seeing the endless array of baseless FUD on LWN. I wish I could just let go and accept that most of the things people say here are clueless and misleading and that's the way it will always be, but some part of me can't let go of the idea that if just one person can be prevented from unknowingly seeing and believing some falsehood then it will be worth the effort.

this is sad

Posted Jun 22, 2016 17:15 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (2 responses)

> It can be done via Group Policy, which is the standard UI for administrative settings that aren't appropriate for most users.
GP now requires Enterprise versions that is not even sold to mere users.

> I find it so enervating seeing the endless array of baseless FUD on LWN.
What, unturnable updates are FUD?

Nope, Win10 is now firmly in "crapware and spyware" land.

this is sad

Posted Jun 23, 2016 10:33 UTC (Thu) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]

>GP now requires Enterprise versions that is not even sold to mere users.

Yet again, this is not true. Where did you get this idea? Even a cursory Google search would have disproved this.

>What, unturnable updates are FUD?

You keep saying things that are blatantly untrue on a topic you clearly have absolutely no knowledge of at all.
Would you behave this way on a forum where there's a reasonable chance of finding knowledgeable people, or do you just do it here because you expect there won't be anyone with enough experience to call you on your bullshit?

Are there in fact any topics you do know anything about? I've read numerous posts from you on topics that I know little about, that seem informative and with no reason to disbelieve them. Now though I'm wondering if they just seem that way because I don't know enough about the subject to recognise when somebody is making up nonsense, so everything you say has to be treated as probably untrue unless carefully verified.

this is sad

Posted Jun 23, 2016 17:13 UTC (Thu) by zlynx (guest, #2285) [Link]

Windows 10 updates cannot be ignored forever. This is true.

If you have Pro or Enterprise they can be deferred. They can be scheduled.

They cannot be ignored.

This is a FEATURE and I support it totally. I never want to see another Windows 7 laptop used for meeting room video conferences and presentations with 66 pending Critical and Required updates.

If you don't want them installing automatically in the middle of your work then PAY ATTENTION to the popup dialog and say when you want them done. No, you can't keep pushing it off four hours at a time, and if you try they will install anyway. That's on you.

If you don't want updates and you claim you don't need them then don't connect a Windows system to the internet. Now you're safe from updates and security holes.