this is sad [LWN.net]

this is sad

Posted Jun 19, 2016 1:20 UTC (Sun) by drag (guest, #31333)
In reply to: this is sad by khim
Parent article: Klumpp: A few words about the future of the Limba project

The solution to bloatware is to glet devices you can install your own oses/firmware on.

This requires not only software but requires respectful hardware. This is one of the classic ironic things about the Linux Desktop... We had the benefit of Microsoft using its clout to force standards on the x86 platform. a this meant Linux had a relatively easy time in PCs.

Android is freaking awesome FLOSS OS, but you won't benefit from it if you depend on stock firewares on leased/contracted phones.

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this is sad

Posted Jun 20, 2016 13:43 UTC (Mon) by clump (subscriber, #27801) [Link] (3 responses)

Android is freaking awesome FLOSS OS, but you won't benefit from it if you depend on stock firewares on leased/contracted phones.

Android is open source, certainly, but "awesome?" Does Android have a particularly vibrant, collaborative open source community behind it? Is code not tossed over the fence when one entity considers it done? Are security updates made available in a reasonable amount of time to users?

While you can buy phones that make it simpler to change firmware, you're going to be installing firmware downstream of Android where the above problems now matter much more to you.

this is sad

Posted Jun 20, 2016 14:10 UTC (Mon) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (2 responses)

> Android is open source, certainly, but "awesome?"

In terms of being able to meet the needs of end users and mobile devices it is a massive improvement over any other FLOSS system out there. With Wayland and container-based packaging 'regular' Linux is coming close, but it's till going to be years before it's up to were Android is. Trying to retrofit modern features on aging code base is going to be more difficult then writing something modern from scratch.

> While you can buy phones that make it simpler to change firmware, you're going to be installing firmware downstream of Android where the above problems now matter much more to you.

Any other FLOSS solution in it's position will face the same problems. People with proprietary drivers, closed firmware, FCC rules, patent lawsuits, losers trying to get revenge through copyright lawsuits, vendors seeking revenue streams through advertising, leasing locked-down phones at massive discounts with obnoxious contracts, and nasty pre-installed applications, etc etc. That is the price you pay for being successful.

Standardization in x86 platform benefits regular Linux users significantly and this standardization is due to Microsoft. People wanting to use FLOSS on other platforms are going need to be very careful in what they spend their money on. Even then they are going to be burned occasionally unless they find a company that specifically caters to this segment.

this is sad

Posted Jun 20, 2016 15:05 UTC (Mon) by clump (subscriber, #27801) [Link]

In terms of being able to meet the needs of end users and mobile devices it is a massive improvement over any other FLOSS system out there. With Wayland and container-based packaging 'regular' Linux is coming close, but it's till going to be years before it's up to were Android is. Trying to retrofit modern features on aging code base is going to be more difficult then writing something modern from scratch.

Except for little concerns like security, lock-in, and having a healthy ecosystem I agree. Wayland and containers are completely irrelevant here.

Any other FLOSS solution in it's position will face the same problems. People with proprietary drivers, closed firmware, FCC rules, patent lawsuits, losers trying to get revenge through copyright lawsuits, vendors seeking revenue streams through advertising, leasing locked-down phones at massive discounts with obnoxious contracts, and nasty pre-installed applications, etc etc. That is the price you pay for being successful.

The situation for everything you've described is far better for users in the desktop x86 world than the mobile world. The solution is not to give up and proclaim problems aren't fixable.

this is sad

Posted Jun 20, 2016 16:30 UTC (Mon) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

With Wayland and container-based packaging 'regular' Linux is coming close, but it's till going to be years before it's up to were Android is.

Sailfish OS (being a smartphone Linux that is based on, among other things, Wayland, Qt, and systemd) is actually not at all bad. As a base system it is rock solid and does what it is supposed to do. It's certainly not “years before it's up to where Android is”. Granted, some of the preloaded productivity apps could use a few more features, but even stock Android is, in many cases, nothing to write home about in that area. And my Sailfish-OS based phone has other advantages, too – having to charge it only once every three days when the Android phone I used to have lasted barely 24 hours on one charge is a definite plus in my book. Oh, and proper multitasking, too.