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Old projects and the free-software community

Old projects and the free-software community

Posted May 26, 2016 17:35 UTC (Thu) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: Old projects and the free-software community by nye
Parent article: Old projects and the free-software community

> So far as I can make out, the answer appears to be "a proprietary version of IRC".
With history. Searchable history. That can also host documents and pictures.


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Old projects and the free-software community

Posted May 31, 2016 14:49 UTC (Tue) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link] (4 responses)

>> So far as I can make out, the answer appears to be "a proprietary version of IRC".
>With history. Searchable history. That can also host documents and pictures.

So, like IRC then? Granted file hosting isn't part of the IRC protocol per se, but in practice it seems to work okay with the mainstream clients.

I guess the implicit answer here is that the actual value is in them doing the setup and hosting, and in only allowing a single blessed client so you know everyone has the same feature set.

I don't want to seem too negative about this - I do value ease-of-use and simplicity fairly highly, especially for short-lived uses where the effort to set up a dedicated server is unlikely to be worth it; it's just that in this particular case the Slack people don't seem to offer any obvious upsides versus using, say, IRCCloud. There are obvious downsides though, which is why I'd expect their website to have a "why we're better" slant rather than simply describing their features as if they existed in a vacuum.

Indeed, trying to understand the purpose of this tool has left me even more confused about the article. It says "several people mentioned the difficulty of maintaining Slack channels for open-source projects", but it doesn't give any reason why those people are wanting to try. Reading around, it seems that Slack is designed for smaller closed chatrooms, not public open ones, and needs a hack to even allow open registration. That is, it's not even intended for this use case.

Given that the entire point of this article is about old projects trying to attract new contributors, and coupled with the perception of "constantly shifting "tool of the month" culture", I can't help but wonder if this might be a situation where the thought processes were along the lines of "I hear young people these days like using X. We should use X too, then they'll all be more interested" - without considering whether that was really a contributing factor in the barrier to entry, nor whether X is actually an appropriate tool for the desired use. It feels... kind of demeaning, like somebody awkwardly using some other culture's slang thinking it will make them fit in better.

Old projects and the free-software community

Posted Jun 1, 2016 1:34 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (3 responses)

No, it's not IRC. IRC is stateless and doesn't have a notion of chat history.

Slack preserves all the conversations and has search that actually works. And when you join a group you can simply scroll up and see the recent talk history.

Moreover, you can download the history to your client so it will be available offline. And of course, multiple clients will see the same history - you can write something from a phone and then move to your laptop or a tablet, completely seamlessly.

This is flat out impossible with IRC. There are history servers but they are not integrated with the core protocol.

Old projects and the free-software community

Posted Jun 1, 2016 11:09 UTC (Wed) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link] (2 responses)

>No, it's not IRC. IRC is stateless and doesn't have a notion of chat history
>blah blah blah
>This is flat out impossible with IRC

That must be why nothing is possible with HTTP, and the web is a product of my fevered imagination. Thanks for clearing that up - I'll go and find a good psychiatrist.

Old projects and the free-software community

Posted Jun 1, 2016 15:36 UTC (Wed) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

WAT?

IRC the protocol doesn't have stateful properties and neither does HTTP the protocol, in either case you can build custom systems around them to keep state (for IRC you have bots, and for HTTP maybe the most standard thing is Cookies but there are many ways to push state across requests) but that isn't a standard part of either protocol in the same way that Slack builds persistence in.

Old projects and the free-software community

Posted Jun 1, 2016 20:34 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

> That must be why nothing is possible with HTTP, and the web is a product of my fevered imagination.
I suggest aiming higher - try TCP/IP or maybe just IP. Then your statements will pretty much always be correct.


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