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Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

For all of you who have been wanting SQL Server for Linux, the long wait is over, or will be around the middle of 2017 (a preview is available now). "'SQL Server’s proven enterprise experience and capabilities offer a valuable asset to enterprise Linux customers around the world,' said Paul Cormier, President, Products and Technologies, Red Hat. 'We believe our customers will welcome this news and are happy to see Microsoft further increasing its investment in Linux.'"

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Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 0:22 UTC (Tue) by juliank (guest, #45896) [Link] (20 responses)

Not wanting, more postgres.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 0:36 UTC (Tue) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link] (18 responses)

I'd rather run MS SQL server on Linux than Oracle!

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 10:34 UTC (Tue) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link] (8 responses)

Luckily there are other options. Like the parent mentioned -- Postgres.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 14:09 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (6 responses)

Applications dictate the database, not the other way around. If what your running supports postgres then that is fine, but most of the time it's up to the app devs. Unless you are the guy writing the software you usually have these choices made for you.

Might as well chime in with 'More MongoDB!', which only has slightly less relevance.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 15:42 UTC (Tue) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link] (5 responses)

MongoDB is a web scale database, and doesn't use SQL or JOINs, so it's high-performance.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 16:51 UTC (Tue) by ThinkRob (guest, #64513) [Link]

> MongoDB is a web scale database, and doesn't use SQL or JOINs, so it's high-performance.

This is a reference to this, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

I hope it is...

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 16:55 UTC (Tue) by cread (guest, #81529) [Link]

MongoDB is only suitable if you don't care about data consistency: https://aphyr.com/posts/322-jepsen-mongodb-stale-reads

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 23:46 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (1 responses)

Is /dev/null webscale?

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 10:10 UTC (Wed) by osma (guest, #6912) [Link]

At least it's available as a cloud service: https://devnull-as-a-service.com/

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 8:24 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

I recently heard a presentation about “ToroDB”, which is a MongoDB-compatible server on top of PostgreSQL. It gives you the same sort of schema-free “non-SQL” database that MongoDB does, and apparently for many if not most applications it runs rings around the original MongoDB, performance-wise.

Firebird

Posted Mar 8, 2016 16:36 UTC (Tue) by xose (subscriber, #535) [Link]

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 11:06 UTC (Tue) by ledow (guest, #11753) [Link] (3 responses)

That's not really a good tagline. I can't see anyone using that as an advertising slogan:

"Well, at least it's not Oracle!"

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 7:13 UTC (Wed) by pr1268 (guest, #24648) [Link] (2 responses)

I dunno... My experience is that Oracle is equally hated by both the MS fanboys and Linux/FLOSS camps.

Side note: I find it interesting that while the FLOSS varieties of DMBSes (e.g. MariaDB/MySQL, Postgres, etc.) work on Windows, Solaris, and BSD1 (and have done so for years), so does Oracle, but only but now does MS SQLServer work on something *other* than Windows Server...

As usual, Microsoft is late to the game. Oh well, better late than never.

1 Also, Postgres, Oracle, and MariaDB all run on Mac OS X.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 11:21 UTC (Wed) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]

Originally Microsoft SQL Server was a Windows port of Sybase SQL Server. Microsoft sold it for Windows while Sybase took the Unix side. So it being Windows-only makes some sense. As another poster noted, this could also be why porting it back to a Unix-like system has been relatively quick.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 19:23 UTC (Wed) by cyperpunks (subscriber, #39406) [Link]

MySQL is available and supported for Windows, Mac OS X, FreeBSD, Solaris (x86 and sparc) and various Linux distros:
http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 11:06 UTC (Tue) by juliank (guest, #45896) [Link] (1 responses)

What else to expect from cortana, Microsoft's personal assistant ;)

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 18:23 UTC (Tue) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link]

Ugh. They stole my name, I swear!

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 11:55 UTC (Tue) by janpla (guest, #11093) [Link] (2 responses)

MSSQL - isn't that simply Sybase for Windows? I've had the ... opportunity to work with both (as well as Oracle, DB2, Informix and several others), and the difference seemed to be mostly superficial. Anyhow - I very much prefer Oracle to most of the others. The documentation is unsurpassable, IMO. I'm not really a point and click kind of person, and find the Windows style of computing excruciating.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 13:10 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

SQL Server and one of the Sybase products have a shared history, yes. Wikipedia's summary indicates that Adaptive Server Enterprise is the descendant of the common ancestor, whereas SQL Anywhere is a completely separate product that came with the Watcom acquisition (and for all I know is now discontinued). I also seem to remember that SQL Anywhere employed a more standardised form of SQL than the T-SQL of ASE (and of SQL Server).

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 15:35 UTC (Tue) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]

MSSQL has advanced a fair bit since it forked from Sybase, and now has multi-version concurrency control (snapshot isolation) as Postgres and Oracle do.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 20, 2016 20:52 UTC (Sun) by davidgerard (guest, #100304) [Link]

$DAYJOB recently moved all our internal Oracle to Postgres and EVERYTHING IS JUST RIDICULOUSLY BETTER NOW. Not just because we never need to think about licensing ever again, but because we can just give every app its own PG clustered pair and nothing has to play nice with anything else.

We also have some SQL Server for a .NET app we bought in. Now looking at moving that to PG as well ...

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 0:36 UTC (Tue) by xtifr (guest, #143) [Link] (34 responses)

Not something I can say I <em>wanted</em>, but I certainly can think of cases where it would have been, or even might still be, useful. When you want to finally get the last few Windows boxes out of the server room, but porting the existing database to a different dbms would be a lot of work, for example.

(I doubt that's the use case they had in mind, but it's a real and practical one that I've seen.)

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 1:44 UTC (Tue) by lutchann (subscriber, #8872) [Link] (33 responses)

Apologies for a bit of a tangent, but here in 2016 how much need is there in the corporate world for MS products on the back end? (I took a break from the IT world to run a cocktail bar, so I'm out of the loop.) Last I looked there was demand for Outlook and AD DC stuff, but at this point is it just a matter of personal preference, or are there "gotta have it" services that only run on Windows still?

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 2:37 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] (11 responses)

I think it's more about labor needs than technical needs. It's easy for an MS-heavy company to find someone to run their SQL Server setup, but not so easy to bring in Postgres consultants. Especially if you want replication or failover.

Technically, except for a few obscure features, I think Postgres is significantly better.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 3:06 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (6 responses)

SQL Server is still better than Postgres - it has more features and is faster on many workloads.

Also, the development and ops tools for MSSQL are the best in industry. There are also solutions for MSSQL for stuff like auditing and logging for compliance purposes.

It's really one of the few products that MS does very well, the other ones being ActiveDirectory and Exchange.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 4:22 UTC (Tue) by ringerc (subscriber, #3071) [Link]

Yep, MS SQL has significant advantages in a number of areas.

I don't know if it's "better" or "worse" than PostgreSQL, but it certainly does very much better for things like individual big queries, where its ability to parallelise queries makes a big difference. Its management and monitoring tools are also worlds ahead. OTOH I think PostgreSQL is more extensible and it's certainly a lot more customisable, even allowing for MS SQL's rather nice .NET integration.

I work on PostgreSQL and I'm hoping that this will help motivate others involved in Pg to stop dismissing MS-SQL and start learning from it.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 12:34 UTC (Tue) by oldtomas (guest, #72579) [Link] (3 responses)

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until...

> Exchange

...this. Now I don't know what to believe.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 12:56 UTC (Tue) by ewan (guest, #5533) [Link]

Exchange is very good at what it does. However, what it does is provide a nicely integrated 'groupware' setup for organisations that actually use it to organise meetings, have calendars and correspondence delegated to secretaries and PAs and things like that. On the side it also happens to have a terrible email server built in.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 14:13 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (1 responses)

As a user forced to interact with Exchange daily I despise it. As a IT administrator (if I was one) for mid-sized corporation then Exchange would be the obvious choice.

It's worth taking the time to understand why people like this software. If you have the attitude of 'well they are ignorant of better things' then it's easy to miss a learning opportunity.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 0:23 UTC (Wed) by rahvin (guest, #16953) [Link]

Whether people like exchange or not, it's functionality has more than 15 years of business cooperation behind it's features. Microsoft did one thing very well for a very long time and that was to work with enterprise customers to satisfy feature requests. People complain about all the things office can do that most people don't use but those features come from extensive feedback and customization requests by enterprise customers. Exchange is the same game, it may do a lot of stuff badly but it's combined features are often significantly ahead of anyone else. And there are a lot of those features that are killer features for a lot of businesses.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 15:37 UTC (Tue) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]

It's really one of the few products that MS does very well, the other ones being ActiveDirectory and Exchange.
What these have in common is that they were all developed outside Microsoft.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 7:29 UTC (Tue) by pwfxq (subscriber, #84695) [Link] (3 responses)

> Technically, except for a few obscure features, I think Postgres is significantly better.

I believe MS-SQL's HA is quite a way ahead of Postgres's. That alone is quite an important feature for corporates.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 13:41 UTC (Tue) by diegor (subscriber, #1967) [Link] (2 responses)

[Citation needed]

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/high-availabili...

It seems to me quite a good pletora of solution for HA for postgresql.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 14:41 UTC (Tue) by ringerc (subscriber, #3071) [Link] (1 responses)

Yeah, there's a plethora. That's part of the issue. Plus lots of 3rd party ones.

I work heavily with PostgreSQL and agree that MS SQL's HA has some really nice stuff we can't easily do in Pg right now. Really, whole new sets of capabilities. Just one example: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms151196.aspx

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 18:33 UTC (Tue) by reedstrm (guest, #8467) [Link]

Reading that technote, it sounds essentially identical in practice to the existing single master replication available in pg core. Note the recommendation of doing all writes on one node, for performance reasons.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 3:24 UTC (Tue) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link] (4 responses)

OpenChange brings Outlook/Exchange support (both client and server sides). Samba 4 brings AD DC functionality.

I guess Sharepoint is popular and doesn't have any FLOSS equivalent.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 3:38 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

OpenChange is pretty much dead or deeply dormant. And realistically, Exchange is not expensive if you're a company. And if you're paying for Exchange then you also probably going to need some of its features like auditing and archiving. Samba AD DC might eventually displace the MS Server, but so far it's not yet there.

As for Sharepoint, I really hope it dies a very painful death.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 16:33 UTC (Tue) by jra (subscriber, #55261) [Link]

Samba AD DC can replace Microsoft AD DC in some situations currently (I know of several large orgs using it right now :-). Best thing is to evaluate to see if it'll fit what you want. Plus we keep working on making it better... (and working on replacing the home-grown components with standard OpenLDAP and MIT krb5 will help make things a lot better - watch for these developments ! :-).

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 15:54 UTC (Tue) by sorpigal (subscriber, #36106) [Link]

Sharepoint is 99% nonsense. Any web CMS replaces the parts of it that are useful and there are plenty of those. The things no F/OSS alternative can ever replace are the delusions that MS sales reps have put into the heads of management about what sharepoint is for and what value it brings.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 14, 2016 20:19 UTC (Mon) by xkahn (guest, #1575) [Link]

There is a pretty good FLOSS Sharepoint alternative: Alfresco.

I've never used Sharepoint, so I don't know how equivalent they really are, but you can check it out yourself: https://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Main_Page

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 7:57 UTC (Tue) by fredrik (subscriber, #232) [Link] (14 responses)

I'm certainly no expert, so the following is just what I've picked up from IT staff I know and customers I've worked with. If we ignore the three obvious, Windows, Office, and Exchange, there's Lync^WSkype for Business, which is all the rage for messaging and meetings. And Sharepoint seems to be a big deal on the corporate side. Frankly I can see the allure: as a regular user your Sharepoint site shows up as a drive, you can customize it and manage group access, add forms, etc. Mostly without involving the sysadmin.

I'm a bit confused myself though, because lately MS seems to have bundled everything in Office 365. How does the future of on-site deployment of MS services look? Will that still be an option for security and privacy conscious organizations?

In summary, as we've seen for decades now, mos of the individual pieces can certainly be replaced by open source solutions. MS forte is creating a enticing and seemingly coherent package of all the bits and making it the default, so that it is hard to stop using once you've started.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 8:05 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (13 responses)

Lync is horrible, it's being steamrolled by Slack, HipChat, Biba and others. Sharepoint, thankfully, is waning fast.

> In summary, as we've seen for decades now, mos of the individual pieces can certainly be replaced by open source solutions. MS forte is creating a enticing and seemingly coherent package of all the bits and making it the default, so that it is hard to stop using once you've started.
They've lost the way long time ago and are now coasting. This is the direct result of unique organizational structure in MS: http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/mic...

However, some parts of Microsoft are still going strong, and it looks like they're hedging the bets on the success of the Windows platform.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 9:01 UTC (Tue) by ovitters (guest, #27950) [Link] (12 responses)

As a user, Lync/Skype is awesome. Easily share screen, share files, calling, see accurate status of other people. Status is really awesome, you see if they're in a meeting/on the phone/away/outside of their office hours/in some fullscreen app (presentation). Pretty much all the things you want in international business Lync does. Plus you see this no matter if you get an email from them or on Sharepoint. Pretty much each time their name is shown somewhere (browser/email/etc) you can do all the things you could in Lync.

Don't get why you say it is horrible?

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 12:23 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link] (4 responses)

I don't personally care for "videoconferencing" stuff - I guess using that term rather than whatever people call it these days makes me a dinosaur, but anyway - having had to deal with people who "really need to catch up" over Skype, or whatever, where one gets the feeling that they just want to hang out and hear people from another continent talking to them for an hour about nothing that couldn't be settled in a couple of short e-mails. I think it all might be a bit overrated, "international business" or not.

But certainly, in terms of things like interoperability, I can totally see why people regard this Microsoft stuff as horrible. Sadly, a lot of the influencers in various Free Software communities seem to prefer airbrushing away any such continuing objections (together with parroting the "Microsoft has changed" nonsense as the company continues to shake down Android vendors amongst other things) in their quest to use the toys on offer instead of supporting interoperable alternatives.

As for SQL Server, I imagine that since Microsoft's cloud cannot run without Linux, various Microsoft server products will need to be able to run on Linux. But my own days of messing around with proprietary database servers are long past, fortunately. All those claims of gold-plated enterprise features never really seemed to pan out as far as my own circumstances were concerned, and I can't help feeling that it would have been much better even going back almost a couple of decades to have gone with PostgreSQL every time than to horse around with the likes of Oracle.

As for Exchange, since people brought it up, the whole Outlook plus Exchange monoculture is now proving to be the gateway drug to Office 365, with organisations conveniently ignoring issues like data protection and privacy. Sadly, efforts to offer alternatives without pandering to Outlook users (who inevitably only want Exchange anyway) seem to have meandered off course in the last decade or so, contrary to any victory speeches you may have read by various people.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 13:17 UTC (Tue) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link]

>in their quest to use the toys on offer instead of supporting interoperable alternatives.

To be fair, it used to be a lot easier to make a free alternative to commercial offerings. In many cases, they were solving relatively simple problems, and it usually *looked* easy to duplicate with your own code, even though it often ended up being a lot harder than it seemed. (the Linux kernel is a good example; as Linus has said, if he had any idea how difficult a problem creating a kernel was, he would probably never have started it.)

In 2015, when you look at a commercial piece of software, a lot of the time it's obvious that building something equivalent would take years of focused effort, probably from a large team. That's pretty discouraging.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 15:26 UTC (Tue) by ovitters (guest, #27950) [Link] (2 responses)

I didn't talk about videoconferencing? Actually that's the one thing that wasn't activated, nor anything I see used often.

When I say calling, I mean that either my (Voip) phone starts calling that person or the Lync call itself. With screen sharing, I mean sharing the things on your screen. E.g. say you're working on something and your colleague is a continent away. I'll check his status, ask if he can has some time and share screen, etc. This works really well, even in groups and with low bandwidth links. It takes no time to setup. It is so easy that it is used for everything. Another example is e.g. a meeting with various people? The "host" shares their screen and write down minutes. All visible to all. If needed to discuss something else, the host switches to that.

There's various other solutions that could be done. But none work as nicely as this. Keep in mind that I've only covered the basics.

> I think it all might be a bit overrated, "international business" or not.

If you're imagining/assuming all kinds of inefficiencies you'll never grasp what I'm explaining! Various people do work inefficiently yeah, but that's not the topic.

I said international business with a reason; that sometimes you don't know the timezone someone is in, nor when they get to the office or leave the office. When I want to call someone, it is handy I can see if I have a reliable way to see that they're available (without needing to ask) plus a very quick way to call them (without needing to know their phone number). Something such as "last seen" is nowhere near good enough.

Regarding your "email is easier": Not always! Sometimes calling resolves things way quicker. In that case, it _is_ super efficient to see that they're at their desk, plus being able to call in 3 sec max. Going back and forth via email takes time and might continue for days (easy when you have timezone differences).

Now regarding personal life, yeah, I highly prefer Free Software and use it almost exclusively. But to have a great free software solution, you'll also need to understand what considerations other people make. I said in my original comment "as a user", because 1) apparently Exchange and Lync are horrible to administrate 2) I use it because I get paid. Fortunately I don't have to care about #1.

I'd like more people to have an understanding in what some (proprietary) software makes possible. You'll not convince the world with just a "but it is free software and open standards"! I'm not advocating to use Lync/proprietary solutions, I want either a free software solution which can at least comes close to what I'm used to, or that people have an understanding of how far off free software is in this regard. If you included me in your "brushing away group", then you've completely missed of what my post was about. Understand how I work with Lync, and make something better (as free software).

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 16:26 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link] (1 responses)

I didn't talk about videoconferencing? Actually that's the one thing that wasn't activated, nor anything I see used often.

OK, but that wasn't clear to me from your comment. I have heard people rambling about Lync and Skype before, but I have no inclination to track the latest technology branding. As I understand your explanation, what you're describing is the kind of unified communications platform that the big telecoms equipment vendors were all lining up to pitch around fifteen years ago, a little while before they all went under, got bought and/or were merged into a big patent portfolio looking for litigation opportunities (thinking of Nortel, Alcatel, Lucent, Nokia's and Siemens' networks divisions and the like). The big difference being exactly how that vision was meant to be realised.

Regarding your "email is easier": Not always! Sometimes calling resolves things way quicker. In that case, it _is_ super efficient to see that they're at their desk, plus being able to call in 3 sec max. Going back and forth via email takes time and might continue for days (easy when you have timezone differences).

E-mail was going to be easier in the situation I described, but just as people blame e-mail for some kind of tyranny over their working day, various "presence-based" tools are probably even worse. Then again, given the enthusiasm for "agile" nowadays, which everyone has taken to mean locking everyone up in the same open-plan office and driving them hard, exchanging 3 second phone calls is probably a delight for some audiences.

You'll not convince the world with just a "but it is free software and open standards"!

Somehow, I think I realise that. After all, the world is quite happy to ignore vendor lock-in and what should be known as "data smuggling" because they happen to like the sales pitch, so I quite understand that you also have to give people something nice and shiny, too.

I'm not advocating to use Lync/proprietary solutions, I want either a free software solution which can at least comes close to what I'm used to, or that people have an understanding of how far off free software is in this regard. If you included me in your "brushing away group", then you've completely missed of what my post was about. Understand how I work with Lync, and make something better (as free software).

And still I suppose people like me deserve all the "entitlement" jibes we get when we offer honest and constructive criticism of the various desktop projects. Not that I've ever phrased any criticism in quite the same form as your final sentence, however.

Indeed, I do write software to attempt to address the shortcomings of Free Software offerings - not in "presence" or real-time communications or whichever buzzword I failed to mention, however - for all the good it does me, given that the apparent attitude amongst any projects significantly well-resourced to offer sustainable alternatives seem to be hell-bent in knocking the king from his throne only to wear his crown. (And just take a look at the distributed social networking scene to see what the prevailing attitudes manage to achieve when such projects are not significantly well-resourced.)

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 16:47 UTC (Tue) by ovitters (guest, #27950) [Link]

> Not that I've ever phrased any criticism in quite the same form as your final sentence, however.

I didn't mean anything in a negative/accusing way. The last sentence was actually not directed at you, it was a further explanation of why I wrote the original post (hoping to provide insight). I am quite annoyed that I like this proprietary solution; I'd really wish for something based on open standards, free software and as little vendor lock in as possible. If there is/was any negative tone, it is not directed at you.

Initially I also had a bit explaining about the cost. A one off fee is just that. But then the reliability comes into play and how much it would cost when it is down. Is the risk acceptable, etc. Within free software the assumption usually is that the cost should be low because anyone might be able to copy your work. While if you have big customers as a client, the cost calculation works quite a bit different (except if you're considered a commodity). I noticed that one of the KDE people at FOSDEM having a stand with a company (IIRC) related to communication. I think there's quite a bit of money to be made here. Even if the software plus support costs quite a bit per user; a company is able to save so much that this should be pretty profitable.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 20:00 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (5 responses)

> As a user, Lync/Skype is awesome. Easily share screen, share files, calling, see accurate status of other people.
You have a low bar for excellence...

Lync has no such basic features as reconnection on Mac OS X, it's not usable on iOS, no support for browser-only version, no server-side history, extremely poor group chats, screen sharing barely works on Mac, it constantly crashes and so on.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 20:46 UTC (Tue) by ovitters (guest, #27950) [Link] (3 responses)

> You have a low bar for excellence...

You have a impressive ability to dismiss what I said!

Nice to bring up that Lync doesn't work nicely on Mac OS X. To add: it also doesn't work on *BSD, nor Linux (if you ignore Android). It also isn't free software, tied into Active Directory, hosting it is apparently terrible, etc.

Ok, for you it is horrible because you're using Mac OS X. However, that doesn't change its featureset nor what Lync is able to do. Summarizing that I have a low bar is laughable. Have you seen 20.000+ people interacting using Lync (+all the rest it needs and integrates with). I haven't checked every suggested alternative, but a lot of the alternatives are quite inefficient or limited feature wise. While Lync integrates every time of communication as well as meetings, etc.

In my other comment I already addressed that vendor lock in is bad, I'm not advocating people should use it, etc. Further, loads of businesses take a different approach. As said I use this solely at work.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 22:05 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (2 responses)

> Nice to bring up that Lync doesn't work nicely on Mac OS X. To add: it also doesn't work on *BSD, nor Linux (if you ignore Android).
Correct.

It should be noted that its competitors (like HipChat or Slack) don't have this problem.

> It also isn't free software, tied into Active Directory, hosting it is apparently terrible, etc.
That's not really a problem for its users.

> Have you seen 20.000+ people interacting using Lync (+all the rest it needs and integrates with).
Unfortunately, yes. They're now switching to Biba.

> I haven't checked every suggested alternative, but a lot of the alternatives are quite inefficient or limited feature wise.
Not anymore.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 2:01 UTC (Wed) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link] (1 responses)

>competitors (like HipChat or Slack)

Those are mainly IM systems, Skype for Business is a VoIP phone system with E911 as well as chat, screen and file sharing, integration with O365 for voicemail storage. Not really in the same class as just a chat system

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 2:18 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

I've yet to see people using _Lync_ for VoIP. Skype is indeed quite good at it. And it's only a matter of time until Slack adds good video conferencing: http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/28/7917857/slack-buys-scre...

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 20:49 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

The Mac client is admittedly pretty crappy but they are scrapping it and rewriting it right now, based on the Skype codebase, and should have the new one shipping by the end of this year, I've seen it although I'm not in the beta test group. I think people have been much happier with the Skype-based client than the old OCS based client.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 10, 2016 9:00 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

WebRTP has allowed in-the-browser audio & video-conferencing to make great strides forward. See https://meet.jit.si/ for a Free option. Commercial ones like BlueJeans have slide sharing features I think.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 11:54 UTC (Tue) by philipstorry (subscriber, #45926) [Link]

AD is the glue that ties together most business' infrastructure these days. Without it, not much happens.

(Some organisations use a variety of LDAP-based systems instead, but most use AD.)

On the desktop, Microsoft is still king. In the data centre - well, many managers want Sharepoint, Exchange and Lync/Skype on their desktops. If you've used them, then you know that they can require many servers to accomplish their work, which is why many people are switching to Office 365 - it really is a bargain compared to maintaining the same infrastructure yourself.

SQL Server fits into this because it's the default data store. Heck, Lync 2013 used it to store stuff like user status - seriously, a whole RDBMS store for user status. You have to wonder, sometimes. But that's the thing about SQL Server - Sharepoint requires it, Lynx/Skype requires it, so you're likely to have a couple lying around already.

Most vendors of Windows programs who might want to use a DB will support SQL Server first, then Oracle/DB2 second (if at all). Precisely because it's highly likely you've got one. It's the same reason a lot of commercial/enterprise software uses IIS - just because it's there.

Microsoft's going to be in people's infrastructure for a long time yet, and I suspect that the last few servers to go would be the AD servers, IIS and SQL Server. Everything else is much more easily threatened by having its demand driven at the client side (where desktop apps might give way to mobile apps, web pages or just other desktop apps).

That's my tuppence, anyway.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 5:11 UTC (Tue) by jra (subscriber, #55261) [Link] (4 responses)

Hurrah. Glad they finally did this. I remember sitting in the Tied House restaurant in Mountain View about ten years ago telling their then-head of Open Source Bill Hilf that Microsoft should port their server apps to Linux.

Better late than never, only took 'em 10 years :-).

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 16:35 UTC (Tue) by busman (subscriber, #7333) [Link] (3 responses)

I wonder when they decided to do it... I imagine it takes a little longer than the mythical man month to port MS SQL Server to run on Linux. But not 10 years :) Filesystem optimatizations, memory handling, ... It would be interesting to know how much man hours it took/still is going to take. Could help assessing whether it's feasible to port other applications by them or by other companies.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 17:35 UTC (Tue) by smckay (guest, #103253) [Link] (2 responses)

I think that in some ways SQL Server is much easier to port than MS's desktop products. It doesn't rely heavily on Windows-specific stuff at a low level, e.g. you connect with TCP not DCOM. It doesn't have a significant GUI component. Its long-ago ancestor, Sybase SQL Server, was developed for Unix.

I'm sure it's still a huge undertaking, but it seems reasonable that MS could port SQL Server without having to rewrite it or port most of the Windows API along with it. My not-super-informed guess is that we'll see an initial release (maybe CTP) with basic stuff, and a later release including the features that take more work to port or are less widely used, like CLR sprocs. And some things just won't be ported because they can't be, like DTC integration.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 23:17 UTC (Wed) by rossmohax (guest, #71829) [Link] (1 responses)

Can't wait to see how they are going to workaround broken async disk IO in Linux kernel.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 11, 2016 13:34 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Get it fixed?

That's the nice thing about linux. Unless there's a design fault (and unfortunately, it seems to me that parts of Posix at least ARE design faults), if it's a problem/bug, anyone with the will can get it fixed.

Unfortunately, reading between the lines from previous threads, I get the impression that *fast* *efficient* flushing to disk for a database is the victim of just such as design fault.

Cheers,
Wol

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 14:02 UTC (Tue) by avtechmjc (guest, #50477) [Link] (4 responses)

Heh. I'd prefer MS Access for Linux. We never really found a general-purpose database reporting tool / GUI / front-end that runs on Linux, and is suitable for use by a casual user (a secretary, the treasurer, etc). It seems like LibreOffice ought to do this, but there is always some weird gotcha - reports aren't "live", flaking/basic formatting tools, etc. You can browse tables at least...

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 10:07 UTC (Wed) by mads (subscriber, #55377) [Link] (1 responses)

Isn't LibreOffice Base meant to be a contender for MS Access functionality?

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 10:08 UTC (Wed) by mads (subscriber, #55377) [Link]

I read your comment too fast, I see you mentioned it already.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 10:38 UTC (Wed) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link] (1 responses)

Kexi should provide all of that: http://www.kexi-project.org/.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 9, 2016 13:18 UTC (Wed) by avtechmjc (guest, #50477) [Link]

Thanks, I'll have to revisit kexi and see how it has matured.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 8, 2016 20:45 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link] (1 responses)

It's nice to see them de-couple their server software from their Windows OS, most every other DB software is multi-platform, and it's strictly more revenue from the MS perspective, Windows licensing is a tenth of the cost of SQL so a small increase of SQL sales can make up for a lot of missing Windows OS revenue. Honestly the SQL server business needs the Windows OS business a lot less than the other way around, let each stand on its own. This is what should have happened more than a decade ago if the antitrust enforcement had been upheld rather than failing when the White House changed hands.

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 11, 2016 13:37 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Only thing is - were there any contractual requirements in place? Seeing as MS SQL-Server was a rebadged Sybase, would there have been non-competes in place saying that they couldn't tread on each other's territory?

Cheers,
Wol

Microsoft announces SQL Server for Linux

Posted Mar 10, 2016 2:43 UTC (Thu) by xnox (subscriber, #63320) [Link]

Will it ship on Steam for Linux, with Wine dlls?! =) Also, nice to see a bunch of people coming out as exchange/lync/etc users. Seems like people still have a pulse on things. Honestly, I think Facebook At Work is better than Exchange/Lync/Office365 combos. But I'm yet to use it. Google Apps are quite good but had a few fiascos along the way - (chat, wave, buzz, plus, hangouts, and the "exchange" connector woes)


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