Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 15:11 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1)
In reply to: Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson by ctun
Parent article: Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

This is exactly the sort of comment I asked people not to post. Please, folks, let's not rehash this thing again...?

to post comments

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 15:33 UTC (Wed) by seyman (subscriber, #1172) [Link] (19 responses)

In unrelated news, the comment filters work perfectly.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 15:43 UTC (Wed) by SEJeff (guest, #51588) [Link] (4 responses)

Thanks for reminding me. I'd literally forgotten that was a feature of a lwn subscription. filtered_accounts++

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 15:57 UTC (Wed) by niner (guest, #26151) [Link] (1 responses)

Oh I didn't even know that lwn does have this feature. Nice!

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 23:35 UTC (Wed) by philh (subscriber, #14797) [Link]

Ah, that's better -- thanks. :-)

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 16:46 UTC (Wed) by The_Barbarian (guest, #48152) [Link]

oh, that is handy. I didn't know it was there!

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 20, 2014 10:09 UTC (Thu) by gebi (guest, #59940) [Link]

oh didn't know that too!
THX, much better now!

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 16:41 UTC (Wed) by a9db0 (subscriber, #2181) [Link] (3 responses)

Oooh yes! Thank you for the reminder.

For those wondering / needing a refresher, go to My Account (link at the top of the left hand menu bar), enable filtering, and add the offending user to be filtered.

Works like a charm.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 17:41 UTC (Wed) by andreashappe (subscriber, #4810) [Link] (1 responses)

ah thank you for that reminder!

Is there a way of temporarily filtering out all guest accounts? I know there are insightful contributions coming from guests but as soon as there's a flame-y topic the greater internet dickwad theory seems to be proved.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 19:51 UTC (Wed) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

I would _love_ that feature...

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 23:28 UTC (Wed) by antitezo (guest, #99387) [Link]

Thank you! I was looking for it at the wrong place :)

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 19, 2014 21:45 UTC (Wed) by louie (guest, #3285) [Link] (9 responses)

LWN's comment section, in the language of Jeff Atwood, is Jon's house (or in my earlier framing, it is Jon's party). To further quote Jeff:

[M]ute and ignore, while arguably unavoidable for large worldwide communities, are actively dangerous for smaller communities.

This is your house, with your rules, and your community. If someone can't behave themselves to the point that they are consistently rude and obnoxious and unkind to others, you don't ask the other people in the house to please ignore it – you ask them to leave your house.

I'm very sad that LWN has come to the point where Jon can't just leave the door open and let anyone into his house. But it is clear that it has come to this point. Jon, how can we help you fix this? Because as-is it is poisoning all the good work you've done here over the years :/

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 19, 2014 22:26 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (8 responses)

Don't know. We really don't want to be in the business of comment moderation, and, if we do have to do that, it will show elsewhere. There's no spare time for it.

Suggestions more than welcome.

I'm really hoping that things will get better if and when this whole systemd thing runs its course. As it is, we're all kind of exhausted.

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 19, 2014 23:19 UTC (Wed) by sjj (guest, #2020) [Link] (1 responses)

Maybe you don't / shouldn't need to think of building your own moderation. Have you looked at Discourse (discourse.org)? I don't have experience with it, but their heart seems to be in the right place... ("Civilized discussion. On the Internet.")

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 20, 2014 7:39 UTC (Thu) by joib (subscriber, #8541) [Link]

Presumably, as there's even a recent LWN article about it: https://lwn.net/Articles/609720/

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 19, 2014 23:20 UTC (Wed) by andreashappe (subscriber, #4810) [Link] (4 responses)

Would it be possible to add an easy way filtering (or collapsing) guest comments? Not long-term or in a permanent way in the database but rather like a ``view filter'' (for lack of better words)?

When a article seems to be collecting flames then I tend to mostly ignore guest posts (due to lack of time) -- my theory is that subscribers don't sh*t where they eat and move their asbestos/flame-related needs to reddit (:

but anyway, thank you for your work!

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 19, 2014 23:27 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (3 responses)

Filtering guest comments would be a useful feature. I'll look into what it would take to add that, it might not be that hard.

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 20, 2014 7:07 UTC (Thu) by peterhoeg (guest, #4944) [Link] (2 responses)

Have you considered opening up the source for the site?

Considering your primary audience, I think you would not have problems finding readers who would submit patches.

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 20, 2014 7:43 UTC (Thu) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

>>Is the LWN site code open source?
>Not yet. We do intend to release our code once it gets a bit more "ready," has had one more security audit, and when we are in a position to support it as an open source project.
>Unfortunately, we spend most of our time creating the content that makes up LWN, and trying to bring in enough money to keep food on the table (servers running, etc.), so it has not, yet, gotten anywhere near the top of the priority list. When LWN reaches a level that is truly self-sustaining, we certainly will spend some time to get that done. Thanks for your patience.

Right here in the: https://lwn.net/op/FAQ.lwn

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 20, 2014 13:49 UTC (Thu) by fb (guest, #53265) [Link]

I always found the instance of not opening up LWN source a little silly.

I mean:
- sure the code likely looks like crap. It is not as if we all don't write crap code.
- yes, there are likely exploitable bugs there.

Given the popularity of this site, it would surely get reviewed and cleaned fast, AND I would be more likely to get fancier features at LWN.

Hey Jon, please consider placing a git repository somewhere and announcing only for subscribers. Within a month, the code would likely get cleaned AND you would have enough material to write a few major articles out of the experience.

No, comment filters don't work perfectly

Posted Nov 19, 2014 23:27 UTC (Wed) by louie (guest, #3285) [Link]

The exhaustion doesn't surprise at all, but nevertheless I'm very sorry to hear it.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 16:30 UTC (Wed) by jch (guest, #51929) [Link] (2 responses)

> This is exactly the sort of comment I asked people not to post.

I actually found ctun's comment rather funny, and neither disrespectful nor a rehash of previous arguments.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 19:21 UTC (Wed) by fest3er (guest, #60379) [Link]

Hyperbolic satire; it's so over-the-top, it has to be funny. And it clearly isn't true because systemd will never be in my GNU/Linux distro. :)

Probably as long as I use GNU/Linux on my desktop, it'll be Debian. If I change, it'll be back to Haiku (BeOS).

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 21, 2014 10:11 UTC (Fri) by jezuch (subscriber, #52988) [Link]

> I actually found ctun's comment rather funny, and neither disrespectful nor a rehash of previous arguments.

...and it was an obvious troll. Consider it a good thing or a bad thing as you wish. (I consider it a bad thing.)

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 19:57 UTC (Wed) by timtas (guest, #2815) [Link] (11 responses)

True, but funny that you didn't mind HelloWorld's disrespectful comments.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 20:03 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

Oh I minded them all right. But it's Wednesday and I only have so much time to nag people. Especially people I've had to nag several times in the past.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 20:25 UTC (Wed) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (9 responses)

My comments were not disrespectful but an accurate depiction of what happened. And you know what? I actually find Jon's behaviour inappropriate. Trolls like mgb get to spread their hatespeech all over the place while people who'd like to criticise one of the primarly culprits of all this mudslinging are muzzled (and let's face it, he clearly was, otherwise there'd be no need for Jon's request in the first place!). Because that's how you encourage the right kind of behaviour.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 20:36 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (3 responses)

FWIW I have asked mgb to tone it down before as well.

The thing that you miss is that there's a time and a place for things. This particular occasion is neither. It doesn't seem all that hard to figure that out, but I guess some people need help.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 20:47 UTC (Wed) by SEJeff (guest, #51588) [Link]

And Jon, we thank you for your gentler style, which results in (overall) LWN from not devulging into another HN or /.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 20:57 UTC (Wed) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (1 responses)

> The thing that you miss is that there's a time and a place for things.
I didn't miss that, I'm just afraid we disagree on what this is the time for. The week that several accomplished project members resigned in due to his actions is most certainly *not* the week we should thank him for his work on dpkg.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 21:22 UTC (Wed) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]

Then don't thank him. Noone has requested that you thank him. Be silent.
Just let him go quietly. Please just let him go. If it irks you that other people are thanking him...just grit your teeth and let it happen and just let him go.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 19, 2014 23:19 UTC (Wed) by timtas (guest, #2815) [Link] (4 responses)

Well, I have learnt early in school to stop kicking when somebody lies on the floor. Ian Jackson has been with Debian for 16 years, was project leader, wrote dpkg and has therefore the right of a decent leaving of Debian. To now dig deep and pull out the most ranting emails he has written clearly is totally disrespectful to him.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 21, 2014 21:55 UTC (Fri) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (3 responses)

Well, I have learnt something at school too: to take responsibility for my actions. I thus stand by my opinion: when you behave like a dick, you have to be prepared to take the blame for it. The people whom you should be sorry for are Russ, Colin, Joey and Tollef who couldn't take it any more, and while Ian certainly isn't the only one to blame for that, he certainly was part of the problem. In a situation like this it should be made clear that this behaviour is intolerable. Instead Jon asks us for leniency for Ian, and when Lennart dares to actually complain about the abuse he suffered, Jon writes an article ("on the sickness of our community") that basically denies the problem and blames the victim, perhaps to avoid fouling his own nest. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't seem right to me.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 22, 2014 1:55 UTC (Sat) by itvirta (guest, #49997) [Link]

There are some things I learned at school, most of them technical in nature.

There are also things I've learned, that were not taught at school.
Things I had to learn outside of it, in the real world, with real people.

One of those was to learn at least some ways to take other people's
feelings into account; and, especially, when to recognise that saying
something will not do any good, and it would be better to just keep my
mouth shut.

I would recommend everyone to at least try to take these things into
account.

For what it's worth (probably not much), I think our valued editor has
done his best to ask for leniency towards _all_, not just any single
person or persons. I can't say I agree with him on every single
occasion, but I cannot do anything but hold that principle in high regard.

I'm sorry to say this, but I do not think the editor is the only party
around here to say something that does not seem right.

Today's Debian technical committee resignation: Ian Jackson

Posted Nov 22, 2014 15:44 UTC (Sat) by Zack (guest, #37335) [Link] (1 responses)

"To take responsibility for my actions," he wrote on the Internet, anonymously. He tried to fan the dying embers. Soon the cold would return, and with it the dampness. It was lonely at the waterfront, but at least it provided shelter.

flaming poetry

Posted Nov 29, 2014 13:40 UTC (Sat) by DonDiego (guest, #24141) [Link]

You know what? That was a strikingly beautiful piece of lyrical prose. You just made my day. I think I'll stick a modified version of this on my wall somewhere. Thank you.