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Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

From:  "Adam D. Barratt" <adam-AT-adam-barratt.org.uk>
To:  debian-devel-announce-AT-lists.debian.org
Subject:  Bits from the Release Team: transitions, architectures, freeze!
Date:  Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:32:41 +0100
Message-ID:  <1411731161.1994.17.camel@jacala.jungle.funky-badger.org>

In this "bits":

 * Freeze reminder <FREEZE>
 * Transition window closed <TRANSITIONS>
 * Final architecture health check <ARCH-HEALTH>
 * Testing migration and security review <MIGRATION>

tl;dr: GONE:  transitions, arch-check
       NEXT:  migrations, security-check
       LATER: main freeze

Transition Window Closed <TRANSITIONS>
======================================

The window for new transitions closed on 5th September 2014. We are no
longer accepting new transitions for Jessie.

Ongoing transitions still need to be finished, so we ask for your
co-operation in completing them as quickly as possible so we can get on
with the main event.

Please do not start new transitions. They will most likely be reverted
or packages removed from Jessie, both of which are ugly. We don't really
want to do either.

Final Architecture Check <ARCH-HEALTH>
======================================

A final architecture check was completed on 14th September. There are
minutes available from meetbot <ARCH-MINUTES>.

Agreed release architectures for Jessie are as follows, with some
conditions:

 * amd64
 * armel [1]
 * armhf [1]
 * i386
 * kfreebsd-amd64 / kfreebsd-i386 [2]
 * mips [3]
 * mipsel
 * powerpc
 * s390x

[1] Hardware redundancy concerns are being dealt with
[2] At risk; see the kFreeBSD section below
[3] Current hardware is a concern, but in the process of being dealt
with

arm64 and ppc64el are release architectures 'in principle'. They have
strong support and have made good progress, so they were added to
testing recently, and look promising. They will get a yes/no decision
along with kFreeBSD soon after 1st November. There is still a lot of
work to be done, so please be helpful to the porters.

As with all releases, architectures may be dropped if any blockers arise
between now and the release. 

The following architectures have not made sufficient progress and will
not be release architectures for Jessie:

 * hurd-i386
 * sparc

ARCH-MINUTES:
http://meetbot.debian.net/debian-release/2014/debian-rele...

kFreeBSD
========

We remain gravely concerned about the viability of this port. Despite
the reduced scope, we feel that the port is not currently of sufficient
quality to feature as a fully supported release architecture in Jessie.
However, we accept that our published view of the port has not been as
'clear and unambiguous' as we would wish.

We therefore advise the kFreeBSD porters that the port is in danger of
being dropped from Jessie, and invite any porters who are able to commit
to working on the port in the long term to make themselves known *now*.
The factor that gives us greatest concern is the human resources
available to the port.

Porters of any architecture need to bear in mind that being part of a
stable release is a long commitment to both taking care of stable and
oldstable, and continuing development in sid. It has implications for
the security team, release team, DSA and other parties.

The urgency of this matter cannot be over-stated. We will assess the
viability of kFreeBSD in Jessie on or after 1st November, and a yes/no
decision will be taken at that time. This will not be a full
architecture qualification, but a simple decision on whether or not the
release team's concerns have been adequately addressed.

Testing Migration and Security Review
=====================================

On 5th October, the testing migration time will be set to 10 days for
*all* packages. Only members of the release team will be able to
override this.

We will happily reduce the migration time for security fixes and other
severe issues on request, so that they reach Jessie sooner. However, do
not expect us to spot these on our own - please tell us about them. A
note in your changelog or bug report is not enough!

The security team will also have an opportunity to review packages which
are considered unsupportable.

Freeze reminder <FREEZE>
========================

We are quickly approaching the freeze, which is now less than six weeks
away! The policy for the freeze is available from <FREEZEPOLICY>.

If you have any outstanding issues or papercuts that you want to have
fixed for Jessie, _now_ would be a good time to get them done. We are
aiming for a short freeze, so any changes you want to get into the
release should reach Jessie before the start of the freeze.

*Remember*: On the 5th of November, the version of your package *in
testing* must be in its desired state for Jessie.

 * Just uploading your package to unstable is *not enough*.  You must
ensure that it reaches testing before the 5th of November, keeping in
mind that the testing migration delay will be 10 days starting October
5th.

 * If your package has trouble migrating to Jessie, you should contact
us before the start of the freeze.

 * If your package was autoremoved, it has to be back in Jessie before
the 5th of November if you want to be sure that it is included in the
final release.

 * Uploads to unstable of large changes that do not reach Jessie before
the freeze greatly reduce the chance that your package will be part of
the release.

FREEZEPOLICY: https://release.debian.org/jessie/freeze_policy.html

Adam, on behalf of the release team.



to post comments

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 16:38 UTC (Tue) by b7j0c (guest, #27559) [Link] (11 responses)

I never understood what the point of kFreeBSD was. I use FreeBSD daily. The whole point of FreeBSD is that it is an *operating system*, not a *kernel*. Without the rest of the FreeBSD system, the kernel itself doesn't seem interesting.

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 17:06 UTC (Tue) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link] (6 responses)

As I understand it, the point of kFreeBSD is to demonstrate (until such time that Hurd works) that Debian is kernel-agnostic. If what we learn from it is that Debian is in fact Linux, that's interesting information, but not something to hold up release for.

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 17:31 UTC (Tue) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (2 responses)

In view of other comment that Hurd is also being removed, yes, Debian does seem to be Linux.

I would be much more interested in FreeBSD with a Linux kernel! (solely for the device drivers. If you can assemble hardware known to be supported by FreeBSD and are fairly sure you won't need anything else, just stick with regular FreeBSD.)

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 21:26 UTC (Tue) by smokeing (guest, #53685) [Link]

Perhaps the adoption of Linux-centric systemd makes the statement "Debian is Linux" ever more unambiguous, too.

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Oct 3, 2014 16:58 UTC (Fri) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link]

I would be interested in FreeBSD with a Linux kernel as well. FreeBSD has linux kernel emulation, but that doesn't solve the hardware issue. Anyone have any thoughts?

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 18:02 UTC (Tue) by sjj (guest, #2020) [Link] (2 responses)

The kernel-agnosticism bit has always struck me as something only some computer science students are really interested in. Nothing wrong with that per se, it's kind of a nice idea, but with no practical use whatsoever (except used to demonstrate the Evil of systemd by some recently).

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 20:28 UTC (Tue) by jond (subscriber, #37669) [Link] (1 responses)

It's also - arguably - resulted in quite a burden on the rest of the project.

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Oct 1, 2014 16:15 UTC (Wed) by bronson (guest, #4806) [Link]

Not sure the extra burden is arguable... Even if you find someone to disagree (which would be hard), I think it can be demonstrated quantifiably.

Whether kernel agnosticism is worth the effort, that's arguable!

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 20:26 UTC (Tue) by jond (subscriber, #37669) [Link] (3 responses)

The one compelling thing I've heard is that if you are familiar with Debian, you get something which is not much different but with native ZFS and jails (the latter less interesting now cgroups and lxc have come along). And/or you could have a Debian GNU/KFreeBSD VM doing the ZFS stuff (modulo performance of passing block devices through) with Debian GNU/Linux on the "outside". I've never met anyone who actually *does* this. I suspect more people just use the Linux ZFS port.

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 21:19 UTC (Tue) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (1 responses)

Is there a tool akin to ezjail-admin for lxc and cgroups? That's my main blocker so far for migrating my jails out (well, that and the disks are using UFS…).

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Sep 30, 2014 22:29 UTC (Tue) by SEJeff (guest, #51588) [Link]

docker? :)

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Oct 1, 2014 10:18 UTC (Wed) by garabik (guest, #99134) [Link]

FWIW, I am running kFreeBSD on one server exactly because I wanted ZFS and familiar Debian userspace, and so far I am very satisfied with this setup.

Hurd too

Posted Sep 30, 2014 17:23 UTC (Tue) by proski (guest, #104) [Link] (1 responses)

GNU/Hurd is also being removed. That seems even bigger news to me.

Hurd too

Posted Sep 30, 2014 18:03 UTC (Tue) by joey (guest, #328) [Link]

The Hurd has never been part of an official Debian release, so no change there. The Hurd project occasionally does their own releases based on Debian releases, and I'd expect that to continue (to the point one can expect Hurd development to continue).

Debian may drop kFreeBSD from the Jessie release

Posted Oct 1, 2014 22:02 UTC (Wed) by rodgerd (guest, #58896) [Link]

Just as well the idea that init choices be dictated by kFreeBSD support didn't prevail, then.


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