Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox [LWN.net]

At the Mozilla "Future Releases" blog, Chad Weiner announces a new feature just added to the latest Firefox Nightly builds: WebRTC-powered audio/video chat functionality. The feature "aims to connect everyone with a WebRTC-enabled browser. And that’s all you will need. No plug-ins, no downloads. If you have a browser, a camera and a mic, you’ll be able to make audio and video calls to anyone else with an enabled browser. It will eventually work across all of your devices and operating systems. And we’ll be adding lots more features in the future as we roll it out to more users." Cross-browser multimedia chat has been demonstrated with WebRTC before, of course, but the functionality has not been built in. Firefox will evidently use OpenTok, a WebRTC application platform, in its implementation.

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Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 5:40 UTC (Sat) by thedevil (guest, #32913) [Link] (7 responses)

I wonder what sound interface it will use on Linux. Probably pulse, so
I am not holding my breath.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 6:07 UTC (Sat) by luya (subscriber, #50741) [Link] (2 responses)

What's wrong with Pulseaudio?

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 22:33 UTC (Sat) by jengelh (subscriber, #33263) [Link] (1 responses)

That I do not run it, and have no need to. I am do not need per-application volume or network connectivity; and softmixing, ALSA can do.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 2, 2014 23:39 UTC (Mon) by tterribe (guest, #66972) [Link]

PulseAudio is detected at runtime. I don't have it running on any of my machines, either, and I work on WebRTC. You need the headers and libraries to build Firefox, but not as an end-user.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 9:09 UTC (Sat) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link]

Firefox has been doing audio/video capture on Linux for a while now, and it generally works very well for me.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 22:57 UTC (Sat) by riccieri (guest, #94794) [Link]

AFAIK Firefox uses gstreamer for multimedia on Linux, so it should work (at least in theory) with any backend that gstreamer supports.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 1, 2014 0:49 UTC (Sun) by eean (subscriber, #50420) [Link]

I was confused as well; WebRTC is already implemented in Firefox. So it will surely use whatever it does currently on Linux.

This is announcing a new user-facing feature for web browsers to communicate with each other directly. Which they can do already with WebRTC... so maybe this is like how Netscape was integrated with AIM? I hope I'm mistaken.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 4, 2014 5:40 UTC (Wed) by krakensden (guest, #72039) [Link]

Given that pulse is an alsa subset, there shouldn't be a problem with plain alsa. Except for the usual nonsense

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 9:09 UTC (Sat) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link] (3 responses)

So, this will do what

https://apprtc.appspot.com/

... does except it won't need you to visit a web page?

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 17:14 UTC (Sat) by iabervon (subscriber, #722) [Link] (2 responses)

It'll do what that page does, except it won't use Flash.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 18:57 UTC (Sat) by rillian (guest, #11344) [Link] (1 responses)

What Flash? I'm not aware of the apprtc demo using flash at all. It's just browser WebRTC together with Google's App Engine and TURN services for call initiation.

The more general goal is to experiment with ways to converse and share data from the browser itself. WebRTC enables realtime chat in any webpage without plugins, which is of course valuable. But as the user's agent, the browser (or phone) is in a better position to create and remember links and social connections than any individual page you visit. More efficient and more private than the click-tracking social networks currently do.

Mozilla would also like to provide an alternative to large web silos like Facebook and Google, so part of the experiment is establishing the necessary server-side supports of a WebRTC service.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted May 31, 2014 19:06 UTC (Sat) by iabervon (subscriber, #722) [Link]

Ah, I'd forgotten that I'd configured FlashBlock to grab HTML5 video as well, and didn't realize that it uses the flash logo for other things it's blocking.

So will FF finally work with meet.jit.si?

Posted Jun 1, 2014 0:10 UTC (Sun) by ejr (subscriber, #51652) [Link] (3 responses)

Or are we braving new worlds of balkanization that only support proprietary vendors?

So will FF finally work with meet.jit.si?

Posted Jun 4, 2014 14:03 UTC (Wed) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link] (2 responses)

Mozilla for whatever reason supports a plan that the people behind meet.jit.si oppose, and vice versa.

This won't make any difference to that at all AFAICT

One of the hardest things to do, when managing a technology project, is to admit that Perfect Outcome A is not going to get done with the available resources and agree to direct resources to Messy But Working Outcomes B, C or D instead. Mozilla have more than once proved unable to make that decision, which has a considerable cost for users who find themselves not only without A, but without B, C or D either.

So will FF finally work with meet.jit.si?

Posted Jun 4, 2014 14:21 UTC (Wed) by ejr (subscriber, #51652) [Link]

And a cost for freedom. If the free solution were trivial and everywhere, people would use it without even thinking. If it's in the same split-up world as the proprietary solutions, most people will just continue with the shiniest thing of the moment without a care about the free side.

Opportunity squandered. sigh.

So will FF finally work with meet.jit.si?

Posted Jun 6, 2014 15:45 UTC (Fri) by pj (subscriber, #4506) [Link]

The meet.jit.si people don't exactly oppose Mozilla's plan... they just want Mozilla to execute.

From https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=977864:

> Given that we are often asked about Firefox support and that this ticket was about a way to provide it, I’d like to end the discussion with the following summary of the situation:
>
> 1. Chrome currently provides support for handling multiple media streams (SSRCs) within a single connection. It does so through a non-standard mechanism known as “Plan B”. We currently rely on this mechanism for efficient multiparty video conferencing in Jitsi Meet.
> 2. In early 2013 a debate took place on the IETF about finding a standard way for managing multiple streams within a peer connection. There were several proposals, one of which, known as “Plan A” was authored by and very strongly supported by Mozilla. Arguments that “Plan A” would imply substantial complexity were vigorously countered.
> 3. After long debates the IETF agreed to adopt a “Plan UNIFIED” as a solution, which was basically a somewhat adjusted version of “Plan A”. All other proposals were rejected and in other words: Mozilla won!
> 4. AFAIK Mozilla has not even started implementing their own Plan UNIFIED and people are cautioned not to hold their breath because its implementation implies substantial complexity.
> 5. In the mean time, Mozilla is often encouraging people to basically abandon usage of multiple streams within a single PeerConnection and advising adoption of other means for handling multiparty conferencing
> 6. There seems to be absolutely no inclination in Mozilla to even consider compromises or alternative solutions.
>
> As a longtime admirer of Mozilla, as well as a Firefox user and supporter, I am personally quite saddened by the current state of things but … it is what it is.

Also relevant: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=784517

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 1, 2014 3:45 UTC (Sun) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link] (2 responses)

Anything to dethrone MSFT-controlled, NSA-sniffed, closed-source Skype, please. Twice. Thank you.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 2, 2014 4:20 UTC (Mon) by b7j0c (guest, #27559) [Link] (1 responses)

yeah, just like identi.ca and diaspora will overthrow facebook.

the network effects for real-time chat were settled long ago. what matters is if you can actually communicate with people you want to communicate with, not if its "open". 99% chance that is facetime/hangout/skype/whatsapp/line or something else that isn't "open" and never will be

who is left to join the "standards-based" world of realtime communication?

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 3, 2014 17:03 UTC (Tue) by njwhite (guest, #51848) [Link]

The network effects for real time chat aren't so great; many people only use it to communicate with a few people; I'd guess the median was 1 other person (e.g. family member in a foreign country). If mobile phones had been replaced by voip, you'd be right, but that seems a way off yet, at least for most people.

I have had no trouble getting the few people I need to talk to with voip to install and use jitsi.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 2, 2014 4:14 UTC (Mon) by b7j0c (guest, #27559) [Link] (1 responses)

the proliferation of facetime, hangouts and skype make this all but irrelevant. IE and safari do not implement webRTC as both microsoft and apple are heavily invested in their own real-time communication technologies.

Mozilla to build WebRTC chat into Firefox

Posted Jun 2, 2014 15:23 UTC (Mon) by Lennie (subscriber, #49641) [Link]

Microsoft will implment WebRTC, I wouldn't worry about that. They are part of the working groups at IETF and W3C.

They are currently implementing the first requirement getUserMedia:

"Media Capture and Streams" status: "In Development"

They will probably not use the original WebRTC API.

But use the newer "WebRTC – Object RTC API" status: "Under Consideration"

http://status.modern.ie/