A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 10, 2014 2:22 UTC (Mon) by oshepherd (guest, #90163)
In reply to: A possible setback for DRM in Europe by osma
Parent article: A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Common industry consensus is that the XBox One is selling above price, and while Sony are taking a hit on the PS4, that hit is small (The selling price is above manufacturing cost, but retailer overheads mean it is selling at a loss), they're only a stones throw (one or two games per console) away from profit.

But they're not going to give up on their DRM, because it works. Eve is not Bob in this case, because all the secrets can be sequestered inside one chip.

It took half a decade to crack the PS3s DRM (And actually, through some "miracle", Sony have managed to quite heavily patch what was once thought to be the "fatal blow"). The 360's DRM is still unbroken (Aside from disk drive hacks which they have fixed in the new consoles).

When Microsoft managed to cram 11 vulnerabilities into 512 bytes of code in the first XBox, they learned. When the PS1 and PS2 were massive hotbeds of piracy, Sony learned too.

Let us not ignore that, Microsoft's backpedaled shenanigans aside, console DRM is not the offensive, in your face, rage inducing, machine wrecking monstrosity that lots of PC DRM is, and it is not built around the false premise of being able to trust a fundamentally untrustable 3rd party machine which contains all three of Bob, Eve and Mallory.

Its' a different kettle of fish.

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A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 10, 2014 16:56 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (6 responses)

The 360's DRM is still unbroken (Aside from disk drive hacks which they have fixed in the new consoles).

That's only true for online games where, indeed, Eve is not Bob. For local games there are a lot of options including modchip which gives you the ability to play games installed on USB-HDD with modifications (e.g. localizations or cheats). If that is not counted as “broken DRM” then what is counted?

A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 12, 2014 9:21 UTC (Wed) by Awebb (guest, #95487) [Link] (5 responses)

This is the real reason why those consoles took so long to be cracked: The online stuff is too important. Pirating a game is no longer fun, as you cannot simply burn a disk and be done, you often have to install updates (Skyrim on PS3 for example) and it usually is a pain in the ass to pirate addons and expansions these days.

I really don't care, I have not pirated a console game since I started to earn my own money. I would have used any sort of DRM removal to run other software. How nice would XBMC have been on the PS3? Imagine one single device in your living room for all your multimedia needs! But no, Sony would not have earned money from music and movie sales that way.

A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 13, 2014 9:48 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (4 responses)

This is the real reason why those consoles took so long to be cracked: The online stuff is too important.

Really? You want to say that XBox360 (which was cracked in a few weeks, then patched, then new versions were “fixed” and then again cracked in a few weeks) it was not important while for PS3 it was superimportant? Are they from different planets or what?

Pirating a game is no longer fun, as you cannot simply burn a disk and be done, you often have to install updates (Skyrim on PS3 for example) and it usually is a pain in the ass to pirate addons and expansions these days.

If that is the reason then why PC games are pirated so much? From what I'm seeing they need updates even more than XBox360 or PS3 games!

People are cracking what they can. Think Wii: it was so badly designed that you can even crack Wii U in Wii compatibilty mode - and, indeed, piracy there was rampant. Singnificantly more than on XBox360, PS3, comparable to PC. Online and need for patches have no stopped anyone.

A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 13, 2014 11:45 UTC (Thu) by Awebb (guest, #95487) [Link] (2 responses)

Have you tried keeping a non-official PS3 game up to date? Even getting the patches would be a PITA. PC games on the other hand have entire groups of pirates who package and upload every minor patch. PC piracy is a total no-brainer.

That said, I still don't see a way to use the 360 for homebrew without modding the drive (=Darmokles' Sword of being banned on XBL), adding a modchip (are there even any?) without losing online capabilities. Homebrew is usually the big reason to circumvent DRM on consoles, because there we are with this expensive hardware in our living rooms and we cannot do anything with it.

> Online and need for patches have no stopped anyone.
It stopped me from trying anything over the past few years and it stopped me from even buying a PS Vita, because I can either run homebrew on it OR have full integration into the Sony service and all the connection features with the PS3/4. This is also the reason, why I will never buy an i{Phone,Pad} or other mobile store based Apple products.

A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 13, 2014 14:25 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (1 responses)

I think you need to study logic more.

You claim: This is the real reason why those consoles took so long to be cracked: The online stuff is too important.. This is simple hyphothesis and it's easy and simple to test it: it means that if one console can be cracked while leaving the ability to use it with online and some other console can not be cracked in such a fashion then first console will be cracked quickly and second one will be creacked slowly. We have three consoles: PS3, Wii, and XBox360. First two can not be cracked without losing online capabilities, last one cam be cracked in such a way. Yet one and only one console was uncracked for years: PS3. Both Wii and XBox360 were cracked early on. This means that implication “people was to play online games thus they will not crack their consoles if they could not keep that capability” is false one.

Your point about the fact that some people have just decided that they don't want to play these games and that not all people crack even Wii (which is very easy and simple to crack) is, valid, I'll give you that. All was just a hyperbola on my path: certanly piracy on Wii is more widespread that on XBox360 or PS3, but that because it's much simpler there. You don't need to even open the cover: buy cheap USB stick, install couple of programs - and play games for free! Almost like PC, really.

A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 13, 2014 19:58 UTC (Thu) by Awebb (guest, #95487) [Link]

I think you need to study talking to people some more (a handy soft skill, even for computer scientists), but I agree on the fact, that the reason I stated is not the only or even the most important one. In fact, I followed the technical side of the PS3 hack a while back, so I know what had to be done in order to provide a software solution to the DRM problem.

Then again, mod chips would have been possible all the years since the console was released, there have even been discussions and concepts in the respective circles, but it was dropped by most with the capabilities to realize it, because the commercial potencial was considered to be not worth the effort, not only because the legislation would allow hunting them down like cheap game, but also because the time for offline-only experiences have been gone for good for a while.

Another fact: Black market blurays and home grown game isos have been around for way longer than the LVo key release (as much as PS3 BD isos have been on the bay for ages), because there have been JTAG based workarounds, just like everybody knows on the Xbox360. It's just that nobody outside the pirate scene really knew much about it, because all this soft modding and clip-on-a-chip mod chips (see WiiKey) really made the masses lazy. It also did not help the homebrew scene, the actual driving force behind console modding, to solve their problems. The homebrew lover is usually the legitimate customer type, who simply wants to do more with those expensive devices.

A possible setback for DRM in Europe

Posted Feb 13, 2014 14:31 UTC (Thu) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

> Are they from different planets or what?

I've been out of mainstream console gaming since graduating in 2010, but the PS3 multiplayer in the dorms tended to be Rock Band, Guitar Hero, and…not much else (I don't think I knew anyone with more than 2 dualshock controllers while plenty had a full set of 4 for the 360). The 360 had a pile of FPS games, XBox Arcade, and more to play online with. So in terms of online gameplay, yes, they were from "different planets".