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A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 17:37 UTC (Mon) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
Parent article: A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

I worry that if sysvinit will stay as the primary supported option, other options like systemd will remain severely buggy in Debian, since they will never be prioritized.


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A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 18:29 UTC (Mon) by amoe (guest, #89179) [Link]

Citation needed that systemd in Debian is 'severely buggy'. I have no experience one way or the other, but I'm under the impression that the systemd maintainers are rather diligent.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 19:31 UTC (Mon) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]

In my recent experience with Debian testing, systemd had way more problems (especially with managing external hard drives) in comparison with the default sysvinit. May be I've been hit by a rough period there, but the impression was that it's nowhere as usable as the default.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 20:43 UTC (Mon) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

Hmm. What do you mean by "managing"? I have a LUKS encrypted USB HDD that I use all the time at home without issue on Rawhide.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 23:22 UTC (Mon) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]

System not shutting down or rebooting (when requested) with eSATA connected disks and so on.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 2:21 UTC (Tue) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

Sounds like a bug; have you reported it?

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 6:00 UTC (Tue) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]

I can try. It wasn't the latest version of systemd though, so may be it was already addressed in the later ones.

Also, Debian bug reporting system often puts me off even when I really want to file a bug. I wish Debian had a normal bug tracker. Why doesn't Debian use one?

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 9:14 UTC (Tue) by nowster (subscriber, #67) [Link]

What's a "normal" bug tracker?

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 10:29 UTC (Tue) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

I love Debian's bug tracker. It's fantastic; I don't have to create Yet Another Pointless One-Shot Bug Reporting Account to report a single bug.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 16:31 UTC (Tue) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]

That's subjective, but for example I don't want to be required to configure an SMPT server to report a bug. Especially when being behind a firewall.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 22:04 UTC (Tue) by jimparis (subscriber, #38647) [Link]

Why do you need to configure a SMTP server? All you need to be able to do is send an e-mail to the bug tracker (from anywhere!) and include a "Package: foo" and "Version: 1.2.3" line at the top of the the body. Anything else, such as using the reportbug tool directly on the system with the problem, is useful, but certainly not necessary.
http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 29, 2014 0:37 UTC (Wed) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link]

Also note that reportbug doesn't require an SMTP server these days anyway; it can send mail directly to the BTS's SMTP server.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 16:37 UTC (Tue) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]

And, for "yet another pointless account" - there are services like Mozilla Persona.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 23:11 UTC (Tue) by misc (subscriber, #73730) [Link]

That's not 2 exclusive things, you could also receive bug reports by mail with bugzilla, or have a webinterface with the dbts.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 10:50 UTC (Tue) by cebewee (guest, #94775) [Link]

There is the 'reportbug' tool which you can use to report a bug in a Debian package.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 16:35 UTC (Tue) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]

It's not the tool that is the problem for me, it's the whole system and its usability. I find bugtrackers like one of Mozilla or KDE for example to be much more user friendly.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 29, 2014 23:37 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

That must be the first time anyone has called Bugzilla user friendly. Ever. It is terrifying.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 19:44 UTC (Mon) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]

In general, does default init system get more testing and especially integration testing than the rest? If all of them get equal treatment, then I'm fine with whatever the default would be, but my initial assumption was that the default should get the most integration tests because it's officially supported.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 20:33 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]

I can give you anedoctal evidence for the opposite: after reading the latest developments, I did
apt-get install systemd-sysv
and rebooted, with great success. Evidently, I don't know how is systemd starting its services (is it just emulating sysvinit?) yet, so I'll get back to you on that. But
/sbin/init
is a symlink to
/usr/lib/systemd/systemd
...

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 20:51 UTC (Mon) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

> I don't know how is systemd starting its services (is it just emulating sysvinit?)

Systemd does support sysvinit scripts (technically, the LSB headers). You can even add verbs for services (akin to "service postgresql initdb") by dropping executables under /etc somewhere (can't find the docs for it, but I remember it being discussed on fedora-devel for postgresql).

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 23:19 UTC (Mon) by rodgerd (guest, #58896) [Link]

> Evidently, I don't know how is systemd starting its services (is it just emulating sysvinit?) yet,

It looks for a unit file in /etc/systemd/system, falls back to /usr/lib/systemd/system, and then falls back to parsing the sysv script if it can't find either of those.

For my Debian boxes that I've migrated to systemd, I've pulled in my own service files on a case-by-case basis and left the rest at their out-of-the-box defaults.


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