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A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 26, 2014 18:27 UTC (Sun) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)
In reply to: A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion by dannyobrien
Parent article: A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

That would be noticed quite easily IMO. Seems overly bad for someones reputation. I think we'll end up with a systemd default (due to the phrasing of the question), quickly followed by a GR. For GR, no idea what the outcome will be. It seems any GR easily adds another month to the decision. It really would be nice to have some clarity.


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A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 26, 2014 19:23 UTC (Sun) by AlexHudson (guest, #41828) [Link]

It's not "bad" per se so long as you believe it's right; what's interesting is that the systemd proponents have put their votes on the table first.

I actually don't think the init software is the problem; I think it's the choice that it represents: whether to allow very essential software to provide APIs which are not broadly implemented. POSIX has been stagnant for ages, systemd is doing interesting and innovative things. Debian built on systemd could be similarly innovative and interesting - but that feels quite a different direction to what it's doing now.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 26, 2014 20:41 UTC (Sun) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

It's not just systemd exposing new APIs or ways of doing thing, the Linux kernel 2.6+ is a lot different than Linux 2.0 or POSIX and now the extent of these differences have been highlighted, a lot of people seem to have been caught by surprise.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 27, 2014 20:08 UTC (Mon) by rodgerd (guest, #58896) [Link]

Voting a 5 for systemd, attacking Bdale, and raising a resolution banning any software which uses systemd from Debian forever.

I don't think Ian Jackson has the same view of his reputation as you do 8)

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 8:34 UTC (Tue) by alexl (guest, #19068) [Link]

The "forbid systemd" part swings both ways. With that in I don't think debian could package e.g.:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Maverick/Upstar...

as it would not work with a systemd init.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 21:38 UTC (Tue) by rodgerd (guest, #58896) [Link]

True, but I suspect the impact's far smaller. Ian's gone on to say it's explicitly about making it impossible for a situation where systemd ends up being the defacto default because too much software (KDE, GNOME, etc) depend on it.

Which cuts directly against the idea of letting the broader Debian and free software world churn up a natural solution. The idea that it would be better for Debian to e.g. loose KDE and GNOME than to have Canonical lose upstart (which is so hopelessly broken that it can't e.g. support Apache natively) doesn't really seem like good stewardship.

But I'm just a Debian user, so perhaps I don't understand Debian's goals sufficiently; maybe there's something about free software being less important than CLA-encumbered stuff that I missed.

A call for votes in the Debian init system discussion

Posted Jan 28, 2014 22:12 UTC (Tue) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

You probably shouldn't confuse Debian's goals with Ian Jackson's goals.


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