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On kernel mailing list behavior

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 21, 2013 3:57 UTC (Sun) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
In reply to: On kernel mailing list behavior by krakensden
Parent article: On kernel mailing list behavior

> All conflict is abuse when it's somebody saying no to you.

No. Do you feel that way? If someone contradicts you in any way do you feel personally slighted and abused? I don't feel that way, I'm happy to take constructive criticism, unless the other party goes out of their way to be personal and insulting. I would think it the same in most professional environments, do you have a different experience?


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On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 21, 2013 15:36 UTC (Sun) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (1 responses)

If someone contradicts you in any way do you feel personally slighted and abused?

Ah, so now my POV suddenly matters? But when supposed "victims" Sarah raises on her flag come and say that they don't feel insulted and abused it somehow does not matter?

And yes, I've seen people who've felt slighted and insulted when people pointed out that they may be wrong (if you want an example the look for the yet-another-tempest-in-a-teapot right here).

I don't feel that way, I'm happy to take constructive criticism, unless the other party goes out of their way to be personal and insulting.

And some people are not happy to take "constructive criticism" at all. There are cultures where you are not supposed to criticize anything publicly - at least not directly. Should we all stop using word "no" on mailing lists to not offend such people?

I would think it the same in most professional environments, do you have a different experience?

First we need to define what "professional environments" even means. Because there different viewpoints. For example there are this video which explains that professionals are guys who never ship shit, who are always ready do deliver, who don't slow down when project ages, who can easily adapt to changes in requirement, etc. Like all the real professionals: good carpenters, good janitors, good cooks. And not like all these amateurs who develop spaceships and cars, mobile phones and large bridges, skyscrapers and yes, software, too.

By this measure I never worked in real professional environment thus I wouldn't know how such work is done. But I've participated in different kinds of projects and I'm ready to admit: as you go from amateurs to professionals (from more challenging work to less demanding and stable one) the more environment represents Sarah's ideal.

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 22, 2013 14:46 UTC (Mon) by bfields (subscriber, #19510) [Link]

There is a lot of middle ground between "people should shout as loud as they like and nobody should complain about it", and "nobody should say anything that might offend anyone".

There are cultures where you are not supposed to criticize anything publicly - at least not directly. Should we all stop using word "no" on mailing lists to not offend such people?

I can say "no" in this case while also believing Sarah's request is reasonable. I don't see any contradiction.


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