On kernel mailing list behavior [LWN.net]

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 19, 2013 14:28 UTC (Fri) by kh (guest, #19413)
In reply to: On kernel mailing list behavior by Tobu
Parent article: On kernel mailing list behavior

> As far as diplomacy and communication skills are concerned, I'd rather interact with a Linus than a Sarah

I really agree. I am not even sure what Sarah is complaining about, at first I thought it was salty language, but there are many examples of her using the same. Then I thought she was complaining about threats of violence, but I don't see how anything Linus said could be taken as a serious threat. On the other hand, I definitely would be afraid to say /anything/ to Sarah after this, between her equating Linus's emails to real threats and misogyny on her personal blog (where there is no real connection), and the threatening behavior of her supporters who seem to wish to shout anyone down who says anything positive about Linus, or public calls to employers to muzzle Linus and his supporters.

It seems to me like this was something Sarah had planned in her head for quite some time, and she got impatient waiting for Linus to really explode, so decided to jump on any little statement, blowing it out of proportion as necessary. (I also think equating this to sexual violence in the military really belittles the terrible things that some have gone through while serving their country.)

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On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 19, 2013 18:49 UTC (Fri) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link] (4 responses)

> I really agree. I am not even sure what Sarah is complaining about,

I believe you that you are coming by your confusion honestly as many people are confused the same way.

The complaint by Sarah is abusive behavior by Linus against others, not herself, abusive behavior including being personally insulting, calling people names and other public berating and shaming of contributors.

> On the other hand, I definitely would be afraid to say /anything/ to Sarah

Sarah is not a shrinking violet and is certainly capable of speaking her mind and interacting with the LKML community, however she would seem to be a poor target for abusive comments or threats. Were you intending to make abusive comments to others online? Even on LWN that really isn't permitted, Editor #1 will step in for people who get too far out of line.

> threatening behavior of her supporters

I haven't seen any threatening behavior by supporters so I don't know what you are talking about, or maybe we have different ideas of what we find to be a threat, but I should point out that supporters are independent actors, such as yourself or myself and their behavior is their own responsibility.

> wish to shout anyone down who says anything positive about Linus, or public calls to employers to muzzle Linus and his supporters

I would ascribe that behavior to those who argue that Sarah shouldn't be allowed to express her opinion and should keep quiet, not those who argue for professional, adult discourse when speaking in a public mailing list professionally, to other professionals. The only shouting and calls for muzzling I have seen are towards Sarah, not Linus.

> It seems to me like this was something Sarah had planned in her head for quite some time

I wouldn't presume some Machivellian malevolent intent, I would start by presuming that Sarah is a human being and is motivated by much the same things that any other person. She saw some behavior that she thought was BS and instead of letting it slide this time, called Linus out on it.

This is a worthwhile discussion to have and we are now having it.

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 19, 2013 19:03 UTC (Fri) by kh (guest, #19413) [Link] (1 responses)

No need to look far:

https://lwn.net/Articles/559434/

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 19, 2013 19:30 UTC (Fri) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

I'm sorry, what are you expecting me to see here?

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 19, 2013 19:31 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

> Were you intending to make abusive comments to others online? Even on LWN that really isn't permitted, Editor #1 will step in for people who get too far out of line.
Our dear leader #1 mostly steps in to kick sexist trolls. And whatever Linus is, he's definitely not a sexist idiot.

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 19, 2013 20:23 UTC (Fri) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

While there is one example of this in recent memory, #1 has stepped in and handed yellow cards to several different instances of unacceptable behavior, not just for gross sexism.